[AU] Race/Creature Analogues

[Varianor Abroad]

I'm just mostly looking for good creature suggestions so when I put together a portal leading to 2-3 standard Underdark adventures, I can swap out the drow with X and the kuo-toas with Y and the mind flayers with Z.

Do your players read these boards? If not, could you post a list of adventures and critters? It would be good for us brainstorming. (That way I can check my meagre collection of Dungeon too and try to get a feel for the adventure.) Assuming that you've already posted the list, we're good.

(Thanks for the explanation by the way. I can see trying to get mileage out of what you've got if you're doing this as a kind of Beyond Countless Doorways segue.)

 

[EricNoah]

Maybe it would help to know what the campaign has already
established thus far.

So far, the main opponents have generally been the PC races as thugs, "evil" spellcasters, bandits, etc. And I agree that when it works it's a great option.

The "evil humanoids" they've encountered thus far in the campaign include...

*Swamp Hag (modified sea hag with sea witch levels)
*dark stalkers, dark creepers from FF (I presented these as unique creations of one particular swamp hag)
*boggles from MMII (mutated and regular) -- again not a widespread or well-known race by any means

So in other words, I have not established that there is a widespread "evil humanoid" race as of yet.

The undead they have encountered so far:
*incorporeal and corporeal undead per the templates in the AU book, using warmains, witches, magisters, and my "akashic monk" variant as the base creature, usually human.
*shadows

Nothing else really (no standard skeletons, zombies, ghouls, etc.).

The "fiends" they have encountered so far include:
*vultrek (from one of the published AU adventures) (unique thus far), *half-fiend monstrous centipedes (unique)

The existing AU and D&D creatures I'm definitely not going to use include:
*goblins, orcs, ogres, etc. Kobolds only get in because of the mojh. Too "D&D" for AU in my opinion.
*standard trolls (I do like the medium-sized Forest Troll from MMIII, I might make their claws poisonous instead of their weapons)
*rhodin, chorim, alabast, etc. (just not very interesting to me -- and it is here that my DT starts to diverge from the published setting, for the less I use monsters common to the setting, the more I have to find good substitutes as necessary)

One humanoid race that does interest me from AU is the harrid -- that's a good sort of "magical overlord" type race if given some spellcaster levels, but I fear my players will not be able to see the difference between them and the somewhat avian vultrek they've already encountered.

So the roles I'm looking to fill, and my thoughts on each:

various kinds of evil humanoids (fills the D&D orc/goblin role):
*ibixian (goat-folk) with tweaks necessary to make them any more interesting than rhodin; a good orc or hobgoblin replacement (MMIII)
*poison dusk lizardfolk (a good kobold replacement) (MMIII)
*kenku (MMIII) -- a sneaky humanoid, not sure if it's a direct replacement but maybe a good goblin replacement in some situations (MMIII)
*grickling (a humanoid/bipedal version of the grick from MM -- it's got slashing tentacles coming out of its face )
*forest troll from MMIII

various kinds of big evil humanoids (replaces troll and ogre and generally evil giants):
*hook horror
*earth hulk (a humanoid/bipedal version of the bulette with the earth subtype)

various kinds of neutral humanoids (fills the lizardfolk role in a sense):
*akthar from Ruins of Intrigue (liking them better and better)
*azers (I have established that there's at least one colony of them under the mountains; perhaps they'd make a good dwarf substitute in some situations)
*skulk from FF?

various kinds of civilized evil humanoids (fills the drow role):
*take a closer look at the valorians from Legacy of the Dragons
*look at some of the psionic races from ExPsiHB -- maybe the maenad for instance, and maybe spruce them up for AU

mastermind-type monsters (fills the beholder and mind flayer role):
*beefed-up or leveled-up grells (Lords of Madness) (maybe use half-ilithid template from FF on them) -- actually with their floating, they do make a good beholder substitute, and their brain-like appearance and tentacles make a good mind flayer substitute.
*use the replacement monsters created by Ari Marmell in his Iconic Beastiary (phrenic scourge = mind flayer; evil eye = beholder) -- they are twisted enough that they are not immediately recognizable as replacements
*various kinds of demons and devils from all sorts of products -- the weirder the better -- would work in these roles as well.
*nagas with levels

The underdark Races (some already mentioned above)
drow = ? still haven't figured this one out, but maybe valorians, or maybe something simpler like fiendish humans? or what about nagas or yuan-ti or something? Hmmm....
kuo-toa = gricklings?
svirfneblin = azers?
goblinoids = athkar, goatfolk
keep the derro 'cause they're cool
mind flayers/beholders = grell philosophers and the occasional other oddity as mentioned above

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I know I am having trouble explaining myself; but it is very helpful to just hear suggestions as they jog the old brain in new directions. Thanks to all who have tried to help out.

 

[Varianor Abroad]

Actually the tsathar from Tome of Horrors make cool substitutes for kuo-toa. They're an amphibian race that can summon slaad. I made good use of them in a recent adventure of mine.

The vultrek is neat. I played in Plague with a friend DMing, and I found that they had quite a different feel from harrids. Nothing to say that they couldn't be related though. Harrids are very cool because of the spell draining capacity. My players dislike them intensely.

Naga with levels are very effective. Sorcerer levels can stack, or when I feel energetic I convert them over to witch since a witchery manifestation makes PCs sit up and take notice. I've contemplated varying them with runethane levels or even akashic levels and giving them more unique coloring.

It sounds like you're going for almost an Odyssey-like feel, where most of the monsters are rare and unique. You've been gaming a long time with your group, so I can see wanting to give them something new to work with.

I'm not familiar with the boss monster replacements you mention - I don't have that book - although I think slassan do a good job as a boss monster. They are tough as nails and really ugly.

I should go back and check my copies of Nyambe and Into the Green. Something is sticking in my mind that might fit one or more of the roles that you mention.

Other than that, it sounds like you're sorting out the monsters pretty well.

 

[EricNoah]

It sounds like you're going for almost an Odyssey-like feel, where most of the monsters are rare and unique. You've been gaming a long time with your group, so I can see wanting to give them something new to work with.

Wow, you're right and thank you for making that clear to me. It's not so much about picking the right monster replacement, it's about providing some variety (for me and for my players). So it makes sense that I work up a fairly decent list to chose from for each niche and then just go from there. And I can even spruce up standard D&D races like orcs by dressing them a little differently, using templates, etc. That helps clarify a lot of things actually...

I'm not familiar with the boss monster replacements you mention - I don't have that book - although I think slassan do a good job as a boss monster. They are tough as nails and really ugly.

Another good suggestion, I might tone them down or make a "lesser" and "greater" variety, etc. Yeah, that works pretty well.

edit: more thoughts while I'm at it -- the quaggoth (Monsters of Faerun) and the grimlock might be interesting humanoid choices as well.

 

[Justin D. Jacobson]

edit: more thoughts while I'm at it -- the quaggoth (Monsters of Faerun) and the grimlock might be interesting humanoid choices as well.

I could definitely see the grimlock as a mojh-bred slave race.

 

[Voadam]

Do you have the AU monster book dragon's legacy? Do a CR comparison for monsters you want to swap out and see what is in there that might fit. For doing straight swaps of critters in a module you want the power level to be about the same. I can't remember if it is in AU or DT or DL but I vaguely remember a list of monsters from many sources that Monte felt were appropriate for the setting, including ToH, CC I & II, etc from the SSS stable of monster books.

 

[Varianor Abroad]

That list is in the back of Land of the Diamond Throne and Arcana Evolved. Eric already has it. Unfortunately, it's got a lot of source material that his players have already seen.

 

[EricNoah]

And the other issue is that Monte, as a publisher, can't suggest things that aren't OGL -- unlike me, who can suggest FF, MMII and MMIII stuff 'til the cows come home. Especially since I'm suggesting them to myself! I also don't have the Tome of Horrors (though I probably should get it) or the SL creature books any more.

I just saw a mind-flayer replacement at The Kyngdoms website that I might blend in with either the grell or something else.