Augment Healing + Vigor Spells

[Nonlethal Force]

The Augment Healing feat (CD) gives a +2 per spell level bonus HP healed to any Conjuration [Healing] spell that is cast. However, the vigor spells - yes they are Conjuration [Healing] - don't work on the same kind of mechanic that a cure spell works on. So, I am asking if this is the correct interpretation (or even a reasonable one):

A Cleric 1 who casts Lessor Vigor would Cure 2 HP on the target immediately (because its a 3rd level spell) as well as granting fast healing 1 for 11 rounds.

A Cleric 5 who casts Mass Lesser Vigor would cure 6 HP immediately (because its a 3rd level spell) in addition to granting fast healing 1 for 15 rounds to 2 targets (if so desired)

The rest of the Vigor spells follow suit from these examples.



Right?

 

[Hypersmurf]

By my reading, Vigor (etc) should be treated identically to Remove Blindness, Remove Disease, etc - also Conjuration (Healing) spells that don't cure any damage directly.

-Hyp.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I agree with Hyp; this feat doesn't help these spells.

 

[Nonlethal Force]

Is that because you read the part about adding +2 to the "damaged healed by the spell" and your understanding of the vigor spells is that technically the spells don't heal damage they grant an ability that heals damage?

If that's true ... while I can certainly understand that line of logic (and even agree with it) is that a fine hair to split?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Is that because you read the part about adding +2 to the "damaged healed by the spell" and your understanding of the vigor spells is that technically the spells don't heal damage they grant an ability that heals damage?

Right.

If that's true ... while I can certainly understand that line of logic (and even agree with it) is that a fine hair to split?

I see it as being similar to why casting Haste, for example, on the party doesn't break your invisibility spell. The fighter makes a full attack, including an extra attack that is solely due to the spell you cast. But the spell did not directly cause the attack; the spell changed the fighter in such a way that he could make the attack.

Vigor does not heal the fighter; it changes the fighter in such a way that he heals himself.

So as far as I can tell, if you allow Augment Healing to cure +2N damage when applied to a spell that grants fast healing, you must also allow Augment Healing to cure +2N damage when applied to a spell that removes paralysis. The 'damage healed by the spell' in both cases is 'none' (which, in D&D terms, is generally different to '0').

-Hyp.

 

[Vurt]

Well, strict interpretation or not, here's what the D&D FAQ has to say on the matter:

What effect does the Augment Healing feat (Complete Divine, page 79) have on lesser vigor (Complete Divine, page 186) and similar spells?

Augment Healing adds twice the spell’s level to the total healing it provides. The simplest method is to have the spell apply the extra healing to the first round of fast healing. Thus, lesser vigor (a 1st-level spell) would cure an extra 2 hp of damage in the first round, for a total of 3 hit points. Each round thereafter it would heal the normal 1 hp of damage. Mass lesser vigor (a 3rd-level spell) would cure an extra 6 hp of damage to each target in the first round (for a total of 7 hit points), and would heal 1 hp of damage each round thereafter as normal.

Cheers,
Vurt

 

[0-hr]

Let's hope that FAQ entry makes it into errata so it becomes rule rather than opinion.

Until then, just Extend the vigor spells. Double the healing for a 1 level increase! woot!

 

[Hypersmurf]

Let's hope that FAQ entry makes it into errata so it becomes rule rather than opinion.

Until then, just Extend the vigor spells. Double the healing for a 1 level increase! woot!

Well, don't forget, if one is looking at FAQ answers on the topic:
The vigor series of spells (found in Complete Divine)
raise an interesting question. Does the built-in maximum
duration of each spell limitation override the effect of the
Extend Spell feat?

Yes. Extend Spell still increases the spell’s duration, but
only up to the spell’s listed maximum duration. Use either the
normal maximum duration or the doubled duration, whichever
is less. If a 7th-level druid used Extend Spell on her vigor spell,
the duration could not increase beyond 25 rounds.

-Hyp.

 

[tomBitonti]

Variable effects

Following up on my surprise on this ruling, I've been looking over other spells and powers
for parallel examples.

Long story short, didn't find any good counter-examples, but ran into a question:

An empowered cure moderate wounds, say at caster level 8, does
(2d8) * 1.5 + 8 points, or (2d8 + 8) * 1.5 points of healing? Or (2d8) * 1.5 + 10?

Thx!

 

[Hypersmurf]

An empowered cure moderate wounds, say at caster level 8, does
(2d8) * 1.5 + 8 points, or (2d8 + 8) * 1.5 points of healing? Or (2d8) * 1.5 + 10?

The variable numeric effect is the amount of damage healed - 2d8+CL, max 10, or 2d8+8 in this case. It's the variable numeric effect that's multiplied by 1.5.

So (2d8+8) x 1.5.

-Hyp.