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D&D 5E Aura of Life, Aura of Vitality and Disciple of Life

Nikosandros

Golden Procrastinator
How does Disciple of Life interact with those two spells? Is the bonus added each time the spell cures HP? I think it does, but I would like to have confirmation, especially for Aura of Life, since the healing is not triggered by an action from the caster (Disciple of Life states that the bonus applies whenever you use a spell [...]).
 

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cbwjm

Hero
I'd say it is added going off the text you quoted. It's whenever you use a spell not whenever you cast a spell which seems to me that no matter when you activate the healing of a spell, it gets the bonus.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
IMO it's DM call. I believe sage advice compendium and tweets say it works with those spells. However, the wording of disciple of life leaves alot up to interpretation. Such as what does it mean for you to use a spell of first level or higher. I interpret that as meaning you must be casting a spell of first level or higher to get the effect.
 

cbwjm

Hero
IMO it's DM call. I believe sage advice compendium and tweets say it works with those spells. However, the wording of disciple of life leaves alot up to interpretation. Such as what does it mean for you to use a spell of first level or higher. I interpret that as meaning you must be casting a spell of first level or higher to get the effect.
They have wording for effects that trigger on cast, it will actually say "when you cast..." this is use a spell. You can use a spell to do things after it's already been cast.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
They have wording for effects that trigger on cast, it will actually say "when you cast..." this is use a spell. You can use a spell to do things after it's already been cast.
Using a spell isn't defined anywhere in the rules. Given the natural language style of 5e it could just as easily be a reference to casting a spell as using a spell in some non-casted manner.
 

cbwjm

Hero
Using a spell isn't defined anywhere in the rules. Given the natural language style of 5e it could just as easily be a reference to casting a spell as using a spell in some non-casted manner.
Exactly, natural language. Did you use a spell to restore hit points? If yes, then it applies.
 


G

Guest User

Guest
Using a spell isn't defined anywhere in the rules. Given the natural language style of 5e it could just as easily be a reference to casting a spell as using a spell in some non-casted manner.
The verbiage used for "When you cast a spell of X, then Y happens" is fairly uniform.

Can anyone point to examples where a change of verbiage for these types of abilities is Just Natural Language?

The Storm Sorcerer has an ability that triggers when they start casting a spell.
The intent, even when conveyed through natural language, is clear.

Disciple of Life states this:
Also starting at 1st level, your healing spells are more effective. Whenever you use a spell of 1st level or higher to restore hit points to a creature, the creature regains additional hit points equal to 2 + the spell's level.

Aura of Vitality states this:
You can use a bonus action to cause one creature in the aura (including you) to regain 2d6 hit points.

By any, reasonable, Natural Language standard, Aura of Vitality, is being used when initially cast, and later when the player uses Aura of Vitality and their character's Bonus Action to heal hit points.

Aura of Life...is Concentrating on a spell using it? No.
Yet, when Aura of Life does heal someone, by Natural Language, you have just used the spell.
 

G

Guest User

Guest
It depends on what use means in this instance.
I'm posting this for entirely satirical reasons. ✌️😀 (No Politics)
FrogReaver, what you wrote above sounds suspiciously similar to this:
1606287369370.jpeg
 


Glibowick

Villager
This is for the Spell Aura of Life.

I looked into other spells that Disciple of Life was obviously intended for like Healing Word and Cure Wounds, to see is the word regains was used or the word restores thinking this would solve the debate, however:

Healing Word:
A creature of your choice that you can see within range regains hit points equal to 1d4 + your spellcasting ability modifier. This spell has no effect on undead or constructs.

Cure Wounds:
A creature you touch regains a number of hit points equal to 1d8 + your spellcasting ability modifier. This spell has no effect on undead or constructs.

So I looked at 2 different parts of the Disciple of Life feature and came to 2 conclusions.

First, the phrase "Whenever you use a spell," becomes the focal point. I would argue that you used that spell when it is first cast turning the entirety of the spell into 1 + Disciple of life. Then a Creature is regaining the benefits of that spell.

Second, you are not casting the spell"to restore hit points to a creature," you are instead casting and aura that doesn't target so it can't be "To" anything, also the spell works kind of imp

But that would depend and what the word "to" means.

So it can be argued that you are using the spell "to restore hit points" since that is your intended purpose.
I think this will ultimately boil down to a DM table decision.


However, If it were me. I would think that since the spell description states, "the living creature regains 1 hit point when it starts its turn in the aura with 0 hit points."
I think that is very limiting feature, I would then allow the Disciple of Life, because only dying players benefit. Also, when a character can take that level 4 spell enemies can still 1 hit the slightly more alive player who is regaining consciousness.

If your DM is still not having it.
This the point where the home-brewing/compromising begin.

I think a middle ground could be accomplished where Disciple of Life works for the first round, that is when you "cast/use" the spell, then when your turn comes around you are no longer casting the spell, only maintaining the spell. So the Disciple of Life benefit goes away.

This is where the word use gets tricky, on one hand you still use the Aura of Life spell it is up and creatures are benefiting from it, on the other hand you are not "using" the spell; other creatures are "using" the spell.

This is where the Aura of Vitality wording helps, "You can use a bonus action to cause one creature in the aura (including you) to regain 2d6 hit points."


You are "using" the spell Aura of Vitality, so there is a benefit.

So for the Aura of Life spell, a DM could rule that you do get the benefit of Disciple of Life if the character "uses" a action or a bonus action on each turn to "use" the spell for the soul purpose of adding the Disciple of Life benefit, and only for that specific Disciple of Life benefit. This would of course change the spells description to reflect that ruling.
 
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Oofta

Title? I don't need no stinkin' title.
This might be a dumb question, but how is a life cleric getting these spells? I mean, I guess if you have a multi-classed paladin you could get them? I mean, you'd have to be at least level 10 (1 level of cleric) to get these, it's hardly going to break the game. Unless of course there's some option that I'm not aware of which is entirely possible.

In any case, I'd rule that they work just fine. A spell the caster invoked aka used is healing someone. It doesn't matter if it's an aura spell or mass cure wounds.
 

Glibowick

Villager
This might be a dumb question, but how is a life cleric getting these spells? I mean, I guess if you have a multi-classed paladin you could get them? I mean, you'd have to be at least level 10 (1 level of cleric) to get these, it's hardly going to break the game. Unless of course there's some option that I'm not aware of which is entirely possible.

In any case, I'd rule that they work just fine. A spell the caster invoked aka used is healing someone. It doesn't matter if it's an aura spell or mass cure wounds.
I think these:
Subclasses: Twilight Cleric, Undying Warlock, Wildfire Druid, Solidarity (PSA) Cleric
Subclasses (legacy): Twilight (UA) Cleric, Undead (UA) Warlock, Wildfire (UA) Druid
Optional/Variant Classes: Cleric
Optional/Variant Classes (legacy): Cleric

Mainly if a Life Cleric had one of these:
Races: Halfling (Mark of Healing), Human (Mark of Handling)
Backgrounds: Selesnya Initiate

but ya they still would get it so high a level it wouldn't matter.
 

Nikosandros

Golden Procrastinator
This might be a dumb question, but how is a life cleric getting these spells? I mean, I guess if you have a multi-classed paladin you could get them? I mean, you'd have to be at least level 10 (1 level of cleric) to get these, it's hardly going to break the game. Unless of course there's some option that I'm not aware of which is entirely possible.

In any case, I'd rule that they work just fine. A spell the caster invoked aka used is healing someone. It doesn't matter if it's an aura spell or mass cure wounds.
Tasha grants, as an optional feature, additional class spells.
 

Oofta

Title? I don't need no stinkin' title.
I think these:
Subclasses: Twilight Cleric, Undying Warlock, Wildfire Druid, Solidarity (PSA) Cleric
Subclasses (legacy): Twilight (UA) Cleric, Undead (UA) Warlock, Wildfire (UA) Druid
Optional/Variant Classes: Cleric
Optional/Variant Classes (legacy): Cleric

Mainly if a Life Cleric had one of these:
Races: Halfling (Mark of Healing), Human (Mark of Handling)
Backgrounds: Selesnya Initiate

but ya they still would get it so high a level it wouldn't matter.
I don't have the Ravnica or Eberron books so that would explain it. The only cleric domain that gets the Disciple of Life feature is the Life cleric which does not grant access to either of the aura spells.

In any case, I'd still rule that it works. It's a nice feature, it's not that big of a deal.
 


It doesn't break anything if Disciple of Life applies on every use. The closest might be the old Goodberry combo. Life Clerics are not even the strongest healers in the game (though they are good at burst healing), so it's a "feel good" bonus for your players.
 

Stalker0

Legend
Just noting, if you do use this interpretation, then regenerate will heal an extra 2d6 a round as well. I mean....its regenerate I don't think your going to break the bank, but that spell actually does become pretty darn good under that interpretation.
 

Just noting, if you do use this interpretation, then regenerate will heal an extra 2d6 a round as well. I mean....its regenerate I don't think your going to break the bank, but that spell actually does become pretty darn good under that interpretation.
Improves it from 1 per round to 10 per round, which is really really nice. But as you say, enemies at that level are doing way more than 10 per round, and you've only got a single 7th level slot until 20th level. It does let a beefy tank refill after every combat, but that actually gives incentive to rush through multiple combats, which can make for some interesting tactical choices. And I like those, both as a DM and Player.
 


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