Author (and artist) of The Book of Erotic Fantasy

[Pielorinho]

Very true. The only part that bugs me is that this is what eventually makes it into Newsweek or the 6 o'clock news. Nothing about the success of Wizards of the Coast, the resurgence in RPGs...no, nothing sells except "Oh look, those D&D wackjobs are at it again!" To have a book that seems destined to feed right into that mindset bothers me.

Huh? I'll be surprised if you can show me a single article in a major news outlet that mentions, by name, a single D20/OGL product. Much less an article ABOUT a D20/OGL product.

I think you have an inflated sense of how much the rest of the world cares about our little niche. We're good for some throwaway jokes on late-night TV, but nobody give's a squirrel's butt about the particulars of our hobby, except for those of us engaged in it.

As for preachermen freaking out about any particular product, again, I think you've got too much faith in them. The religious rants I've seen about D&D have betrayed a deep ignorance about the game, have shown that the ranters haven't ever picked up one of the basic rulebooks. Anti-D&D folks don't hang out on D&D messageboards, don't cruise game shops looking at new products. Their twenty-year-old stereotypes suit them just fine, thankyouverymuch.

Of course, if you can produce an anti-D&D rant that mentions the Book of Vile Darkness by name, I'll be impressed and will retract that last comment. (NOT an anti-BOVD rant: a rant about the evils of RPGs in general)

Tempest, meet teapot. Teapot, tempest. Have fun!
Daniel

 

[Psion]

I am always surprised at the intolerance of gamers. One might expect those engaged in a hobby quick to be accused of being bad or evil to be a bit more open minded of things that are different. Games depict every aspect of life: from war to food to sleeping, so why is it that games or game products depicting sex or even nudity cause such an uproar.

Considering one person in this thread has been critical thus far, I am confused where this "uproar" is. Considering how naturally contraversial sex issues are, I consider this rather tame. If there is any uproar, it seems to be the folks yelling out how they are being oppressed.

 

[d20Dwarf]

Considering one person in this thread has been critical thus far, I am confused where this "uproar" is. Considering how naturally contraversial sex issues are, I consider this rather tame. If there is any uproar, it seems to be the folks yelling out how they are being oppressed.

Well said!

 

[lmccauley]

To Whom it May Concern at Hasbro and WotC,
...

Bravo!

 

[Ghostwind]

It continues to amaze me how many people think that a game approaching 30 yrs old is so fragile that no one may ever deviate outside the norm without risking the destruction of the game. For those of you who are old enough to remember, much the same was said about the first comic books that chose not to go with the CCA label and produce more mature and adult stories and art. Comic books are still big business and continue to thrive. Why would D&D be any different?

There is a line of thought that says, "We must not publish books like this because it will warp the development of our fragile youth." My response to this is, "What makes this different from any other mature subject matter?" Instead of "Erotic Book of Fantasy" substitute "racy, violent R-rated Hollywood movie" and see if it changes the perspective any. You can go to any bookstore and pick up a paperback book filled with provacative fiction designed to shock the reader and draw him into the story. Do we rally against this also? It is the responsibility of the parents to be involved in their child's life and know what he or she is doing, reading, playing, etc. It starts at the home and ends at the home. To condemn a publisher and writer because you feel the book will fall into the hands of younger gamers is wrong. In essence you are saying that "in order to ensure that no inappropriate material is viewed by our youth we should deprive everyone of the right to this material. If you want something like this in your campaign, make it up yourself."

The fact remains that there is a significantly large number of gamers who have played D&D since its early days who would welcome material that is not so formulaic and generic. Why does everything HAVE to be written for the 15-20 yr old gamer? If given proper treatment, a mature line of gaming products would likely flourish among the older gamers who are looking for more than just dungeon hack-n-slash. D&D isn't always about killing things. There are many more facets to the game that many GMs are actively incorporating into their campaigns. From what I have read, this book sounds like a tool for those GMs who want to have more to their games than dungeon crawls and published adventures. I applaud Gwendolyn for having a genuine desire to create books for this segment of the gaming population.

Finally, a couple of folks have commented that the authors are in it for the money and nothing else. As someone who is heavily involved in the industry, I have to say "Ha! Don't kid yourself." Valar and the authors are certainly not in it for the money. There is very little money to be had in the RPG publishing business. Any publisher out there will testify that it is a love for the hobby coupled with a desire to do well that drives them. Publishers (and especially writers) make very little money on products. Don't believe me? Read this thread where Jim Butler explains some of the logistical costs involved in making books. Then maybe you will understand that money is certainly not a factor here.

 

[MerakSpielman]

To Whom it May Concern at Hasbro and WotC,

How will you keep these rulebooks away from kids?

The same way you keep all of your other adult material away from kids. And they're not the publishers of the BoEF.

How can you justify this? What place does crime and bloodshed have in a game?

Do we play the same game? Crime and bloodshed have been staples of fantasy RPG since it came along. Have any of your D&D sessions honestly gone by without bloodshed?

D&D will only serve to heighten the gamer stereotype of "trenchcoat mafia" kids with trigger-happy fingers. It will serve to fuel the image that a bunch of sociopathic guys play this game. It is a stereotype that I have worked against for a decade. It has been bad enough trying to get past people's beliefs and let them see the truth. Most people will see these books and never even take the time to listen!

Are you attacking D&D specifically as a game that gives people the wrong impression about gamers in general?

Get over it. People don't care what gamers do. Even the bible-thumpers don't really care, since they already made up their minds on the subject 20 years ago (there are some minds it's not worth the time and trouble to try to change). There have been no uproars against D&D for a LONG time - and it's not because they took the demons and devils out of the Monster Manual. Nobody cares anymore. The BoVD didn't even make a blip on the radar of this supposed community of anti-D&D fanatics, waiting for any excuse to use the game as a scapegoat for their children's personality problems. If a book about demon worship and ritual sacrifice didn't bother them, why will a few nekkid elves?

I am not telling anyone that they cannot make crime and violence a part of their game. That is for each group to decide on their own. In fact, the GMs should be the one's making the material! It is a game of imagination afterall. Why do we need RULES for robbing and killing people? Did you ever consider that by turning crime into a die roll that you are lessening it in real life? Kids who get this book will not truly respect the act if they are "experienced" with in game murder! Or is this a liberal political agenda to bring more people around to your viewpoint by targeting people at a young age? Because it will be teens, especially angry young misfits who finds this book to be the most desireable.

How will the BoEF promote any of these things? It seems it will focus on eroticism, not crime and violence (at least, not any more than the PHB and DMG already do, and I don't see you picking on them). How can you have a game without crime? What do the characters do in a world where everybody treats everybody nicely and there is no devient behavior to be heroic about? And violence? Do you even use the sections on Combat? I don't understand. You've been around a long time, Nutkin. You even have your own spin-off board. Have you only just now noticed that D&D is a game full of blood, crime, and violence? Why aren't you protesting the sex? That's what this new book is about, not crime and violence.

I am sure that people will rail against me and bandy names such as troll and hippy.

Not at all.

However, it is MY image that concerns me.

Clearly.

I love Hasbro's less offensive card games and boardgames (except for Clue which is very inappropriate) and I hate that I have defend myself, my morality and my honor from people because of the existing stereotype. For those of you who want to say that this book will have no effect, that I am a doomsayer, or that I should not try to censure others for what they do in their private homes, then you are not seeing the point of my argument.

Is this the same Squirrel Nutkin who started Nutkinland, where things are a lot more gritty than here at EN world? If not, I appologize, but I thought you were a bit more open minded than this. For anybody who hasn't been there, here's nutkinland.

I have no desire to control what you do in your own group. You can still DO it. We do not need a public set of rules for burglary and murder in D&D.

We already have that... In the PHB.

This is simply a move to create controversy in order to sell a product: D&D.

This product has been officially protested by WoTC. Maybe part of the publicity stunt, maybe not. What they really want to sell is the BoEF.

I know that you do not care how we, the players, appear to others. You're in it for the money, but I do wish that you'd considered that angle.

I could care less how I appear to others. Everybody has heard of D&D. Everybody has their opinions about it already. This book won't alarm people and more than other books on sex for RPGs have.

The only thing that I can do is write you and let you know what I think. In fact, I will be sending multiple letters, including a petition started by my players and circulating around the local game shops and universities. I did not fight TV, movies, and video games, but I will not go quietly into the darkness on this issue.

Perfectly within your rights. Good luck. Just make sure you know what you're protesting. This will be a book on eriticism and sex, not blood and violence.

Or were you protesting anything that has crime and murder in it? 'Cause that means you're protesting most RPGs out there, and you're going to be sending a LOT of letters.

 

[Squirrel Nutkin]

Uh... Merak, you might wanna read BelenUmeria's message first, and then read my reply.

 

[d20Dwarf]

Comic books are still big business and continue to thrive. Why would D&D be any different?

Thrive? Comic books are dying on the shelves as an industry, it's not nearly as vibrant as it once was. The decline coincided with the rise in the number of independent, edgy, ULTRA violent, ULTRA sexual comic books.

Whether or not that was the cause of the decline, I can't say, so don't go accusing me of post hoc ergo propter hoc. I'm just saying that it's possible that this sort of content DOES hurt sales in a primarily escapist market, whether it be aimed at children or adults.

 

[Pielorinho]

[snip]

On another messageboard I'm on, occasionally someone will post something sarcastically, and another poster will take them seriously, not realizing that they're responding to a sarcastic post. To represent the sound of the joke going over their head, onlookers will reply:

WHOOOSH!

I'm just sayin', is all.

Daniel

 

[KDLadage]

--snip--

Wow. It has been thirteen years since I witnessed anybody miss a point by a margin that wide... I mean, wow.

Note to MerakSpielman: I suggest you go back and re-read the thread. Mr. Nutkin was (quite obviously) making his point through hyperbole and satire.