Avatar: The Last Airbender - Bending styles as classes?

[Cwheeler]

An interesting idea, and one with potential merit.

I do have a few issues with it though - The chief one being the feeling of "I'm playing a Leader!" "I'm playing a Striker!", rather than "I'm playing an earthbender who trained in the way of the sundered shard" (although this could arguably be a matter of perception).


It could really be done either way though, and there's nothing intrinsically wrong with the approach you proposed.

The way I see it working is a little more like this:

Two-Tongued Gale: Aribending Attack 1
You unleash a bust of air against two opponents
Encounter •
Standard Action Ranged 3
Target: Two creatures
Attack: Primary stat vs. Reflex
Hit: Targets take 1d8 damage
Controller: Range becomes 5. Slide each target 1.
Defender: You pull each target 1. You get +2 on all defenses against these targets until the end of your next turn
Striker: Slide 2 before or after attacking.


A quick thought on possible 'trappings' for an avatar setting:

1) All characters in Avatar have a number of powers that they can choose from when using their encounter or daily powers. (this was already suggested earlier in this thread) - this is because combat in Avatar tends to be quite fluid and versatile.

2) Characters get a +2 bonus to their defenses against attacks from the same power-source as themselves. (?)

3) Opposed attack/defense rolls rather than static targets (as the combat in avatar feels very edge-of your-seat skill-based.

 

[ceiling90]

At a point, I was working some Bending Classes; and I've come to the conclusion that it really should be 4 classes.

As for the Issue of Roles:
I've given some thought to that, and while the show makes it quite clear that no one character is given a distinct role (then again, seriously, in what story do you have characters who fit exactly into gamist roles?) the style of the bending and the general philosophy behind each seems to grant them decent role selection.

Water: This is a Leader/Striker Hybrid with some Controller thrown in. The majority of the waterbenders you see (maybe like 3?) fell into two categories; You have Katara - she's a classic striker style, akin to a warlock with many control based effects (from freezing water strikes, ice spikes, blades, and that iconic whip). The only reason I chose this to be a Leader is because there is no other bending style with a built in healer. It seemed very much a version of the Waterbender that they could be a leader; remember the last two or three episodes of the first season - it seems that female benders of the northern tribes all became healers, not fighters. No other style is hinted at teaching the ability to heal or rejuvenate. This class is another issue, I would say that it should be Leader first (the game or setting needs a leader) then Striker or Controller next depending on build.

Earth: The only reason I thought this to be defender, is that quite frankly, the entire philosophy of the style is to be strong as earth and almost as immobile. While earthbenders really seem to be the least mobile of the styles, it's not so much immobile, as it moves the earth around themselves. Thus I figure a defender that could move their marked targets to them and away from their allies. Toph is an oddball of the earthbenders, so it's very difficult to say that they're defender-y or even controller-y or even striker-y. Watching Toph and a few other benders, they're very much between the controller and the Striker type; but here's the catch; I think they would work extremely well as a ranged defender or sorts (though aren't those called Controllers?) Very many of the powers could be used to do as such. It's large stretch. This class should be Defender foremost then either controller or striker as secondary depending on build.

Fire: This is the element with almost all positive Jing, where it's basically attack attack attack attack. Through out the show, you've seen single target strikes and blast type attacks; and only later, much later did we see effects like firewall, though often times firewalls and the like appeared from burning debris... It's pretty easy to say that they're strikers. Thus Striker first then either Controller or if you push it a little, they could be defender's depending on how creative you want to get with the build.

Air: I hate this element. I really do. Cause you only see 1 airbender and they're already at epic. In fact you see 2, but both are pretty epic; and all I noticed that they're highly mobile, are pacifists and tend to move things. Could be Controller, could be Striker. Think of the rogue and think of the wizard. I mean, so far, the only you really see could easily be a striker, though I think the setting needs a dedicated Controller. So Controller first, then Striker or Leader secondary with build choice.

Now why they're given specific roles: Each class needs a function, at least an identifiable and easily understood purpose; and branching the classes into more than two possible types is going into the 3e Wizard issue of being everything and nothing at once. So I figure take a single role then mix the styles via build types (styles) so that you can have a striker-y Waterbender, but they're still considered a leader.

note: I also based my versions off the giants in the play ground version.

 

[hobbitguy1420]

I suppose that will work just as well, although again there'd have to be powers specifically designed for each role for each class, as well as the general-use adaptable powers with modifiers depending on the role.

I like the contested-rolls-for-defenses idea, although I've never seen it done so I imagine it'd have to be playtested to make sure it doesn't bog down the flow of battle too much. I also like the multiple-powers-choose-one route, although again it'd increase the power production load when designing each class.

I think each class should get a bonus when defending against its own element, but I'm not sure if it should be standard for all of them. I always got the impression that some bending disciplines (fire, especially) were weaker at defense, whereas it always seemed like water was stronger at it - taking the enemy's attack and turning it into a defense.

The different roles for each bending discipline should definitely have more fancy-schmancy names to 'em. I like the "way of the sundered shard" thing - sounds like either the striker or controller path.

terminology note - name for bending powers: Techniques.

I do think that each bending discipline should approach its role in a different way. That'll preserve the feel of each style.

Fire should be direct and aggressive - as a striker it should focus on pure damage output rather than mobility, as a defender it attracts its marks by hurting them if they don't pay attention to it, as a leader it should focus on inspiring the others to attack and such, rather than pure healing, and as a controller it should probably tend toward fear effects and aoe damage.

Air should focus on mobility - enabling swifter and more flexible movement for itself and its allies as a leader, preventing its enemies from moving as they'd prefer as a controller, depending on swiftness to hit and avoid damage as a striker, and even as a defender an airbender should constantly be in motion. Makes me wonder how a mobile defender role would work...

Earth, by contrast, should probably focus on steadfastness and resistance. Ranged striking, probably, so the bender doesn't have to keep traipsing around the battlefield interrupting his own jing. As a defender, on the other hand, an earthbender would probably be a pretty standard "grin and take it" sort. As a controller I could see a lot of creating and manipulating difficult terrain and/or walls and formations of dirt, and as a leader it'd be all about helping its allies stand their ground, boosting their defenses and preventing hostile pushes, pulls, and slides.

Water would be about rediretion in its attacks. I could see a defender build that redirected the enemy's attacks (at the waterbender or at its allies) toward the attacker, and controller powers would probably focus toward status ailments like dazing or immobilizing. As a leader, a waterbender would probably focus on healing, with a secondary focus on recovery of other means (reducing the chance or damage for enemies' opportunity attacks and/or granting greater chance or damage for its alllies' OAs). A striker build will be hardest for water, as it's canonically a less aggressive style, but I'm sure some method can be worked out.

 

[CrimsonHawk]

Avatar the Last Airbender: A Guide to Playing Elemental Heroes in Dungeons and Dragons, 4th Edition

Just saying.

 

[hobbitguy1420]

I saw that, and it's impressive work, but I don't like pigeonholing every bender of a certain element into the same combat role - especially as I can imagine groups playing this without having benders of every element in it.

On the mechanics front, the concept of opposed roll defenses gave me a thought. It brings up the idea of defensive powers beyond the encounter and daily immediate reactions and interrupts. I could easily see Waterbender defense powers granting basic attacks whenever struck or missed by an attack, as water is all about taking attack and making it defense and vice versa.

 

[hobbitguy1420]

explanation: Right now there are attack powers and utility powers. I almost see the possibility for a third type of powers, defense powers, that you can use in place of a basic defense when rolling to defend against an attack.

 

[Cwheeler]

That seems like a great idea - It fits in with the combat style of avatar really well.

The one thing is that if you did this, you'd need defense powers for non-benders as well...

Could a list of generic defense powers be made, tied to role and/or power source?

 

[Garthanos]

explanation: Right now there are attack powers and utility powers. I almost see the possibility for a third type of powers, defense powers, that you can use in place of a basic defense when rolling to defend against an attack.

By using a players make all the rolls house rule (from UA originally)... you get players rolling there defenses whenever they get attacked. And just as a spear can be used to deflect attacks so can magic missiles, basically allow players to describe how they use "any" of there powers defensively.

 

[ceiling90]

I saw that, and it's impressive work, but I don't like pigeonholing every bender of a certain element into the same combat role - especially as I can imagine groups playing this without having benders of every element in it.

It's not quite pigeonholing, it's given a definite purpose to the class as opposed to just having a class named "XBender" with it having multiple roles and purposes.

If you really want the benders to be role independent, then make it a Multi-class like spelled scarred, so that you can have whatever role you feel you need and then tag on the bender powers.

Otherwise it goes against some major tenets in class design from what I can gather from the way Wizards wants to balance the game. Cause you can have let's say Firebender that could almost be all 4 roles, what's the point of the other classes?

Even in a setting type game, the Martial source has quite a few classes that could work well in it, and making benders extremely multi-role sort of defeats the variety of classes in the first place. It's not say that you can't have a primary role class have a variety of secondary depending on build. Look at the Fighter and the Ranger, they have different secondary role benefits, that can be as significant as their primary role benefits.

 

[hobbitguy1420]

The way I'm looking at it, you couldn't have one person taking up multiple roles. Each bending class would come with choosable subpaths (similar to the warlock pacts). You could only choose one subpath, and the subpath you chose would indicate what role you took with that class. So if you had a waterbender trained in Southern Tribe Style, she would function as a controller, creating zones of slowing water and immobilizing foes in ice, whereas a Northern Tribe Style bender would be a leader, offering healing and defense to her allies. The different subroles would grant different class features or modify the way pre-existing class features worked, and would also provide and modify powers available. It's almost more like the bending styles each offered four different classes, with overlapping powersets and class features: one class to cover each role.

Again, to my mind, there are two reasons for this sort of arrangement. First is for flexibility reasons. Yes, bending styles tend toward certain ways to view battle, but they don't lock all characters of a certain element into a single rigid role the way a less flexible method would. I can easily see one waterbender tending toward a controller role, all freezing waves and icicle barrages, while another waterbender focused on healing and inspiration in a leader role.

Also, if, say, you were playing a party as a Fire Nation strike team, or a Water Tribe hunting group, or even a troupe of Air Nomads, you'd want to have the flexibility to cover all or most of the combat roles without having to shoehorn in members of the other bending classes. The availability of other classes (I'd allow the martial ones at the very least, and possibly others with enough justification) can even this out somewhat, but I would have trouble imagining a group wanting to play an Avatar-based game without including (for the majority) bender characters.