Avenger Impressions

[mlund]

I'm pretty jazzed with the idea of an Avenger of Moradin. Taking Hammer Expertise at first level you've got a C15 I16 W18 smite-machine with 29 Hit Points 16 AC and a 2d6 Weapon he swings at +7 to hit with his Avenger powers. His second Feat can be Dwarven Weapon Training to open up the Superior Hammers and get that +2 Damage. By taking the Retribution shtick and having a Minor Action Second Wind his Rogue-like AC isn't really as much of an issue, so you can wait until Level 4 to pick up Leather Armor Proficiency.

To heck with the stealthy Avenger, I'm grabbing a ridiculously oversized hammer and the Big Book of Grudges (TM) to squash those who have wronged Dwarf-kind!

- Marty Lund

 

[nightwyrm]

It's a pity the Avenger finds it somewhat hard to increase his criticals. Although he can attack twice he's going to find it hard to get one of the Epic feats to increase his critical range because of the Strength requirement. Neither does he have a paragon path that could do it for him.

A Dagger Master Avenger might be amusing though. I'd definitely have to do the math for that but I think the damage would be a bit less.

I was thinking of doing cleric multiclass and taking radiant servent. Avengers got quite a number of radiant melee powers.

 

[SpydersWebbing]

Love the Avenger. Normally I don't roll above an 11, so having 2d20 every attack means I'm actually USEFUL....

I LOVE THE AVENGER!

 

[Akaiku]

I was thinking of doing cleric multiclass and taking radiant servent. Avengers got quite a number of radiant melee powers.

Get a sunblade or a brilliant energy weapon. Then they all can be.

 

[Byronic]

I was thinking of doing cleric multiclass and taking radiant servent. Avengers got quite a number of radiant melee powers.

I thought of that myself as well but didn't consider the Avenger to have sufficient Radiant powers. Not even one useful at-will (the at will that does radiant is ranged so wouldn't work with the oath iirc) But I just remembered, wasn't there a weapon that turned damage into Radiant? And wouldn't that add the keyword to the power? Suddenly making Radiant Servant a delightful alternative.

 

[nightwyrm]

I thought of that myself as well but didn't consider the Avenger to have sufficient Radiant powers. Not even one useful at-will (the at will that does radiant is ranged so wouldn't work with the oath iirc) But I just remembered, wasn't there a weapon that turned damage into Radiant? And wouldn't that add the keyword to the power? Suddenly making Radiant Servant a delightful alternative.

There is that one at will that deals damage to your target if someone attacks you. It doesn't do radiant damage on your hit, but it does have the radiant keyword so it should qualify for the radiant servent crit ability. But I do agree that it's not a very good at will though.

 

[Leatherhead]

I dislike the avenger.

From the enemies point of view, they are too dangerous to hit. Not only is a defender running around hindering you, but the avenger penalizes you for hitting them as well, making it a double whammy. Which, of course, means that any opponent who is smart enough to figure that out is going to stop attacking the avenger. There is this domino effect that comes from the avenger being attacked less, most noticeably that they don't get to use their powers to the full extent. But more importantly, other PCs end up using more healing surges.

 

[Solodan]

I dislike the avenger.

From the enemies point of view, they are too dangerous to hit. Not only is a defender running around hindering you, but the avenger penalizes you for hitting them as well, making it a double whammy. Which, of course, means that any opponent who is smart enough to figure that out is going to stop attacking the avenger. There is this domino effect that comes from the avenger being attacked less, most noticeably that they don't get to use their powers to the full extent. But more importantly, other PCs end up using more healing surges.

I disagree. The avenger motivates enemies to stick together closely, yes. But that allows your party to capitalize on blast and bursts, which most classes have at least a few of at encounter level.

I do have a dislike to the effect that the avenger will probably always play the same way - isolate some baddie and it becomes me vs him while my party and his party do something completely different.

 

[mlund]

I dislike the avenger.

From the enemies point of view, they are too dangerous to hit. Not only is a defender running around hindering you, but the avenger penalizes you for hitting them as well, making it a double whammy.

I like the avenger.

From the enemy's point of view, he's too dangerous to hit. Not only is it harder and more costly to hit him due to the Defender marking the enemy, but the Avenger will hurt you if you hit him back.

This means any reasonable enemy will be forced to attack the Defender, and that permits the Defender to fulfill his designated role in the adventuring party instead of standing around feeling like a defective Striker.

Moreover, it is going to force the enemies to either hold a front-line formation around the two of you, or split up and let you use your Oath of Enmity double-roll to decimate them one at a time.

Much like the Fighter's Combat Challenge / Combat Superiority, the Avenger has a feature that serves its purpose best when it is seldom triggered but instead forces the enemies to play the game his way.

- Marty Lund

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Love the Avenger. Normally I don't roll above an 11, so having 2d20 every attack means I'm actually USEFUL....

I LOVE THE AVENGER!

But... You just get just more chances to not roll above 11!