D&D 5E Avoidance to replace HP?

I mean I guess I'm not seeing what your actual goal is. It seems like you're going to make a more complicated system which isn't fully compatible with 5E but I'm missing the why - I had thought it was for reasons of making more sense but...
 

log in or register to remove this ad

I mean I guess I'm not seeing what your actual goal is. It seems like you're going to make a more complicated system which isn't fully compatible with 5E but I'm missing the why - I had thought it was for reasons of making more sense but...

Fair enough. Let's say this is an open experiment in the exploration of changing passive hp/ac to active avoidance. Honestly, I have no idea where this might go. It is an exercise in thought for now anyway, so don't think too much on it.

I suppose you can think of it this way: if hp is a mechanic that doesn't care about the narrative, what would a mechanic that did care look like? Using as many elements of hp as I could, how might it break down. What would it do or how would it operate?

Say you have a DEX 16, which grants 3 "dodges" per long rest (for instance, this could easily be changed of course). You are successfully attacked by an ogre. Instead of just subtracting 12 hp or whatever, this system says you have 3 dodges, X luck, Y skill, avoidance points to use. You choose to use one of your dodges and the game is narrated as such.
 

Fair enough. Let's say this is an open experiment in the exploration of changing passive hp/ac to active avoidance. Honestly, I have no idea where this might go. It is an exercise in thought for now anyway, so don't think too much on it.

I suppose you can think of it this way: if hp is a mechanic that doesn't care about the narrative, what would a mechanic that did care look like? Using as many elements of hp as I could, how might it break down. What would it do or how would it operate?

Say you have a DEX 16, which grants 3 "dodges" per long rest (for instance, this could easily be changed of course). You are successfully attacked by an ogre. Instead of just subtracting 12 hp or whatever, this system says you have 3 dodges, X luck, Y skill, avoidance points to use. You choose to use one of your dodges and the game is narrated as such.

OK that makes a lot more sense and is more interesting. I have a few thoughts and will respond properly tonight if I get a chance.
 

OK that makes a lot more sense and is more interesting. I have a few thoughts and will respond properly tonight if I get a chance.

Cool, I am glad it makes more sense now! Sometimes the ideas are barely half-formed when I start asking for others' input.

Yeah, the work-week has begun and I go to work in a couple hours myself. Whenever you get time I would love to hear any thoughts you have. I'll be thinking it all over during the week as well. :)
 

Say you have a DEX 16, which grants 3 "dodges" per long rest (for instance, this could easily be changed of course). You are successfully attacked by an ogre. Instead of just subtracting 12 hp or whatever, this system says you have 3 dodges, X luck, Y skill, avoidance points to use. You choose to use one of your dodges and the game is narrated as such.
Definitely helps
 

Whether some defense is before or after (risk of) damage is computed ie how desperate and last second is it could create a small guessing game with strategic parameters. In fact the "same flavor source" might be cheaper one way than the other.

Decide to dodge before you know if they even hit, decide to dodge after you can tell they will hit, desperately dodge when you know its going to be a nasty one.
 

Doesn't this effectively make the PCs even harder to kill? It seems like 5e is already slanted to very few PC deaths, or near deaths (though I've only played around 8 times so far.....).

I also guess I'm not sure how different it is, really, than "all hit points above 1 are really about avoiding real damage, or getting tired in battle, or whatever".

I'm intrigued by the narrative possibilities.....but would you also change the rules for monsters?
 

They wouldnt be ‘perfectly’ healthy at 1 hit point. Having become ‘bloodied’ at half-max hit points, they would be bruised and banged up − fatigued and vulnerable to a fatal attack.
Now you're talking about a hybrid model. This thread is about removing the physical component, and turning it into avoidance; in which case, you aren't necessarily bloodied at any point.

Healing potions can't cure the avoidance component of any model that uses them. Avoidance points aren't visible to the characters, the way that meat damage is; and that's a big problem, if much of the game is devoted toward managing those points.
 

Well, since this is something I might want to use for D&D, my first thoughts would be that maybe you have to spend 1 AP per die of damage or something? A fireball for instance might require 8 AP, with a successful save making it half that? Or maybe only 1 on a made save? I really don't know. Like I said, it is just a concept I am throwing out and seeing what comes of it.

Sure, of course then you have the whole "martial weapon proficiency is valuable mostly because their dice are bigger than similar simple weapons", etc., and "cantrips are balanced by trading die size for other effects" (vicious mockery suddenly becomes amazing), and all of the abilities and feats that allow you to reroll damage dice or treat certain rolls as other things, etc. So then you address that and all of a sudden you're either rewriting the whole game (though, to be fair, with the number of modifications it seems like you use you've pretty much already done that) or you're back to a pool that looks a lot like HP.

So maybe the way to go is to leave the concept of damage against the pool more or less alone and focus on the way the size of the pool is calculated / break the pool up into sub-pools with different narrative focus, and the ways in which it refreshes.

For example, I like the idea that the "tougher" classes are more durable not so much because of how many times they can get hit in a row before going down but because of how quickly they can bounce back from exertion. So maybe you have the damage pool be based entirely on CON mod, but replace bigger hit dice with a bigger share of your pool that can refresh on a short rest.

On the other hand, maybe the "dodge"-base classes get a pool of points like you're talking about where they can turn hits into misses a certain number of times (based on DEX mod), avoiding that damage completely, but when they're out of dodges they become vulnerable to physical damage until they get a rest to regain dodge points. Maybe uncanny dodge then becomes a quick-refresh dodge pool (refreshing when you roll initiative, instead of on a rest?) instead of halving damage, and evasion becomes an ability to use dodges in circumstances where you normally can't?

Meanwhile the "mental avoidance" idea could be implemented with a mechanic that lets you avoid the first hit from a particular enemy through prediction/feinting/insight, but then each subsequent hit they get a roll vs your passive intelligence/wisdom/charisma score (or use the formula for spell DC), to see if they've figured out your shtick, after which you can no longer use that trick vs that enemy. I probably wouldn't be inclined to have different mechanics for each mental stat, but maybe CHA is opposed by WIS and vice versa, and INT is opposed by INT. Something like that.
 


Remove ads

Top