Awakened Animals

[Lord Pendragon]

I seem to recall there already having been one 'is cannibalism evil?' thread, which, in the end ultimatly went the same place as most paladin/alignment discussions: nowhere, but with a lot of momemtum. If we'd all like to go round and round again, then by all means, but let's do it in a thread of its own rather than this one.

Yes, I seem to recall one revolving around Slaadi and implantation as well. I'm fairly entrenched on the opposite side on this one, but have no desire to go round and round again.

 

[Nyaricus]

A neat, D&D inspired (i would guess) book is the Lord of the Isles. In one is an awakened orangutang (i think, it's an ape, at least) with some bad temper problems. At least Cashel has like, 28 Str and is a "halfing" (in this case, a half-fairy)

uhhh, yeah, later . . . .

'Follow me and we shall forge an empire! A cute and fuzzy empire!'
>glass

this is going in my quotable quotes! ahaha i can't get enough of it.

***

For Narnia, they had talking animals, but Tash and or Aslan could make them dumb animals at will, IIRC. The Last Battle had the cat go nuts or something. Damn, it's been awhile.

 

[Goobermunch]

Besides, if intelligence did breed true, it wouldn't be the animals you'd have to look out for. It'd be the trees.

I'm sorry, but I have to. <a href="http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp05012002.shtml">Warning the content behind this link is suggestive, and might possibly offend Eric's Grandmother. It contains profanity. It's also terribly funny.</a>

--G

 

[Raven Crowking]

I seem to recall there already having been one 'is cannibalism evil?' thread, which, in the end ultimatly went the same place as most paladin/alignment discussions: nowhere, but with a lot of momemtum. If we'd all like to go round and round again, then by all means, but let's do it in a thread of its own rather than this one.

It's a pretty good way to get a thread closed, anyway.



RC

 

[ARandomGod]

eeeewww now thats taking Roleplaying too far!

Wildshaped to BE human, of course.

And we don't really role-play that. It's more story.

 

[Andor]

It's a shame that Wildshape doesn't actually let you turn into a human unless you dip a level into Master of Shapes. Probably well worth it if you don't want to wait for Thousand Faces though.

As for trees... yeah. No one who's read LOTR can possibly fail to grasp how bad an entire forest of Awakened trees is. Heck even a forest with one evil high level tree bard can be bad...

Perhaps it's best to go with the one per generation model on inheritance, or say it doesn't count for pollen. Besides can you imagine the problems if it spread via cross-pollination? I don't want the grass complaining when I walk on the lawn... *gets evil idea*

So to consider if language use makes it evil to kill something for food... And it seems to me that is at least in part a cosmology question. Is the existence of the soul the dividing line? Does a druid ensoul an animal when he awakens it? Are there any sentient creatures without a soul? Undead are (presumably) soulless and some of them can talk. Or do we use a more pagan approach with no soul vs spirit division?

 

[Harmon]

One of my wife's characters purchased a Riding Dog (Elrick) to use as a pack animal in dungeons and such (they had not gotten any Bags of Holding up to that point). A couple of adventures later a Druid befriends Elrick and begins talking to him. The Druid meets with the PCs, likes them too, but fears for the dog's safety. In order to give Elrick more of a chance as an adventurer he awakens him.

Boy are the PCs mad at that Druid now.

Elrick tends to mate with any and all females dogs in heat that he encounters, even spending a little silver to have access to the kennels in some towns. "Hay, I could pass on my ability to talk to my pups," he has been know to tell kennel masters "think how much my pups would be worth."

The magic that made Elrick intelligent does not pass on however, otherwise there would be a huge number of awakened animals running about and the XP cost on the spell would be near useless.

Elrick as it turns out is now Ranger6, with some calling towards Bard (I have not given him levels in Bard because I didn’t want the PCs to have easy access in the beginning to Bards). He is obnoxious, tending towards cowardly, though very loyal to his master, and he is more then willing to sacrifice of himself for his friends when he needs to. He has Mythral armor, saddle bags of holding, magic fang ring, and gets his own share of the loot for fighting, carrying, and assisting where he can.

Elrick knows that in about ten years he will be to old to adventure and wants to have a good savings so he can retire, and maybe own his own brothel- I mean, kennel.

The Players like him, but I wonder just how much. The PC think of him as one of their own and have stepped in to protect him when he’s gone down.

I think its all how you play the critter that has been awakened, and I think you should consider the future and past ramifications of having an awakened animal around.

Is the existence of the soul the dividing line? Does a druid ensoul an animal when he awakens it? Are there any sentient creatures without a soul?

Never understood the POV that says animals don't have souls, other then to think that perhaps that is the line some people dislike crossing as they eat their steak. Animals have emotions, have souls, and if they don't why do we? (Ignore this hyjack- I have spent a lot of time with animals and it bothers me to think that people believe don't have souls- I know they have emotions.)

 

[Sejs]

So to consider if language use makes it evil to kill something for food... And it seems to me that is at least in part a cosmology question. Is the existence of the soul the dividing line? Does a druid ensoul an animal when he awakens it? Are there any sentient creatures without a soul? Undead are (presumably) soulless and some of them can talk. Or do we use a more pagan approach with no soul vs spirit division?

Ask 10 DMs and you'll get 10 different answers, there. Part of the issue stems from the fact that the system itself isn't clear on the matter. There are places in the default cosmology that're basically set up as an animal afterlife, which argues that everything living has some form of soul or another, and that any distinction between soul and spirit would be artificial.

As for the undead/soulless angle, I'm personally of the opinion that they infact do have a soul - that the soul of the original owner of the body is bound back into the corpse to serve as its animating force (for corporeal undead), or just recalled and trapped (for incorporeal). That the bonding process makes the resulting creature sort of like an outsider in that they're one cohesive body/soul unit, inseperable, and that destroying one destroys them both. That's part of why whistling up undead is an evil act: you're basically yanking some poor bastard from the afterlife and condemning his soul to either an eternity of servitude or destruction just so you can have a cadaverous butler.

 

[Raven Crowking]

As for trees... yeah. No one who's read LOTR can possibly fail to grasp how bad an entire forest of Awakened trees is. Heck even a forest with one evil high level tree bard can be bad...

It was commonly believed that trees hated people. This was particularly true for trees which were used by people (i.e., felled for lumber, coppiced, or had their fruit taken). A cup of cider was often left for the Apple Tree Man by the oldest apple tree in a grove to protect those who gathered apples there, for example.

Coppicing is the oldest form of forestry management, performed by cutting a tree (broad-leaved tree) down to the stump. The tree then grows again, producing multiple poles instead of a single trunk. The harvested poles provide long, straight pieces of wood suitable for a wide range of products.

The idea that trees did not feel warm and fuzzy toward humans appears in Tolkein's Old Forest and (to a lesser extent) Mirkwood and Fangorn.

An old poem says:

Elm do grieve
Oak do hate
Willow do walk
If you travels late​

RC

 

[Alratan]

It's a shame that Wildshape doesn't actually let you turn into a human unless you dip a level into Master of Shapes. Probably well worth it if you don't want to wait for Thousand Faces though.

Ther;s a druid substitution level in CoV which deals with this.