Aware & Unaware?

[Reffy]

I have a question regarding surprise rounds.

When I'm the DM, my friends usually attack npc's. That's fine, they can do whatever they want. But here's the thing I don't understand.

Situation: 3 Players are talking with one npc. For some reason they all have their weapon equipped. When talking, one player suddenly attacks the npc. The other 2 players also join the attack.
They did not plan this ahead, it came out of nowhere.

According to them, this is a surprise round. But I've been wondering about that.
In order to surprise an enemy, he needs to be unaware.
My question is? What is unaware in D&D?

The npc was not deaf/blinded/unconscious or in any way not paying attention. So you could say he was aware, therefore the surprise round is invalid.

You could also say that he was unaware, because he did not expect an attack.

Also, what about the same situation, but the npc was 5 squares away from the players. Does that count as an surprise round?

Can anyone explain this to me?

Thank you very much.

 

[jefgorbach]

A surprise round occurs because its exactly that: a surprise attack.

Thus in your situation, ONLY the individual who suddenly attacked without provocation nor warning would have benefited from the surprise round since his allies, like the unfortunate NPC, would have also been caught unprepared for the sudden onslaught and thus would have spent those precious seconds comprehending the sudden change in situation and preparing to react accordingly.

 

[rkarnes]

Everyone involved is looking at each other, aware of their presence? No surprise round. Giving your players the surprise round should be a reward for planning ahead, not being trigger-happy.

 

[Squire James]

Surprise rounds are for situations where one party or the other is not aware of an impending attack. In my games, they generally only happen if one side strikes from stealth or one side is VERY distracted. If an NPC expects an attack, even if he don't quite know when, I don't think there should be a surprise round.

Even if the NPC is truly flat-footed and did not expect an attack, such a tactic should only work once or maybe twice before future NPC's are trained to "always expect ninjas".

 

[Jester David]

Even in the above surprise is debatable. The PCs go for their weapons, but that doesn't mean enemies won't react quickly. Think about westerns: the villain goes for his gun but the hero draws faster. That's initiative.

You could also rule the person drawing weaponry is the only one to get surprise, which is fair, but they can make a Bluff check to signal the rest of the group but the opponents get a Sense Motive check to catch it.

Opponents are really only unaware if one side doesn't know the other exists. Enemies in one room hear the PCs fighting other bad guys, so they know there's trouble coming but the PCs don't.

 

[Aaron L]

If your player's characters are standing around with their weapons drawn and suddenly, randomly decide to attack the person they were just talking to it is NOT surprise. It IS Chaotic Evil behavior, but not a surprise situation. It would only be surprise if they jumped out of the shadows and attacked or something like that. But if they were talking to some dude and decided to just suddenly mug him? No, that's not surprise; not only did the guy KNOW they were there, he was looking right at them, and he saw they had their weapons in their hands. Hell, he really should have been EXPECTING them to attack, because there is really no reason to be holding weapons except to use them. This situation is just time to roll initiative to see who gets to go first; there is no surprise. Surprise is only when one party does not know the other party is there.


If your players do this a lot, randomly attacking people they were having conversations with without provocation and hoping to "surprise" them, then A: they sound very immature, and B: I really really hope they don't think that they're playing Good characters. Randomly attacking people without cause just for the fun of it is about as Chaotic Evil as it gets. And if their characters weren't already Evil, then you, as the DM, should tell them that their characters are now Evil. Because if they're going around randomly attacking and killing people then they really aren't adventurers anymore, and certainly not heroes; they're nothing but serial killers.

 

[Mark Chance]

GM: "You and the NPCs are talking."

Player: "I attack! Surprise!"

GM: "Great. Everyone, roll initiative."

 

[billd91]

If the PC is trying to sucker the NPC, I'd make it a bluff vs sense motive to hide his intentions. After all, if he's intending to attack but is appearing to negotiate, he's trying to deceive. That's a bluff.

If he succeeds, then I'd give him the surprise round. But probably just him unless he had planned it ahead with the other PCs... not simply because the other players happen to overhear the table-talk.

 

[Mr.E_Danger]

So in this situation, what is the npc talking about with the PC's? If i were in a room talking to a group of armed men that i do not know or trust, i would be expecting an attack. On the other hand, if they are quick drawing weapons or attacking with stealth, then i'd give the first attacker a stealth round.

 

[concerro]

If I am talking to people that are armed, and we are not friends that have even the slightest reason to kill me then my guard would be up. If the players want to pretend to be friendly they should at least roll a bluff check.

Being the first to say "I attack" does not constitute a surprise round.