[B.A.D.D] Red Discussion

[WizarDru]

I love Dragons. Definitely make this an encounter that is extremely tough. The PCs shouldn't be able to win unless they use excellent tactics, forethought, planning and have a lot of luck. I'd like to say I think it's not very wise for the Red Dragons to keep the Gold Dragon alive. He should already be dead. But I guess they suffer from villian stupidity, and are going to leave a potentially dangerous adversary alive until he's rescued. Red Dragons are arrogant, but they're not stupid. Gelban should already be dead.

Infernus is many things, but stupid he isn't. He has uses for Gelban, not the least of which is political hostage. The metallics and chromatics are at war, and Gelban is being used to maintain a fragile peace. Killing him is certain to cause the Golds and Silvers to commit fully to the war, and the Reds are smart enough to not want that. As long as Gelban lives, the metallics are somewhat crippled, politically speaking.

Infernus is also loathe to kill him for reasons he wouldn't even admit to others...namely that Gelban is one of the ten oldest dragons in existence, and he's afraid of what might happen if he does. Though my players aren't aware of the fact, Dragons cannot be raised from the dead or resurrected in my world. Death is very final.

The tactics you're describing are sound, but it's not my intention to crush the players directly, and make this a two-room encounter. The demi-plane is the size of a small island nation, and not all of the dragons will be in attendance or even cooperative with each other. Ashardalon hates Infernus, and would gladly betray him to the players, if he thought he could kill them later and get away scot-free.

However, you've just kicked off something I can resolve and use Durance Vile for....Gulthias. The Dragons destroyed Nightfang Spire in my game, and the players never actually engaged him directly. I can template him and he'll fit in nicely, AND allow me to close out that thread entirely.

This is good. Evil is afoot.

 

[Berk]

As suggesed before the area should be fiery in nature. The red dragons will also use plenty of iron golems, fire giants, efreet, smoke paraelementals, magma paraelementals and other fire based creatures. Most likely also some air based and earth based creatures as well. There most likely will be a big contingent of dragons there of all varying colors. I mean if this is a dragon fort, it's gotta have a lot of dragon occupants and guards as well.

Also the dragons will make sure they have more energy attacks on hand that deal other then fire damage. They know if anyone would want to lay siege to them they will most likely be prepared just for the climate of the terrain with protection from fire spells such as energy immunity and such.

I can't really think of much more atm because I'm dead tired but let me grab some sleep and I can deffinately come up with a bunch more and even some tactics.

 

[LuYangShih]

Yeah. A good trap is the following:

The room is a large room, with a burning river of lava cutting them off from the other side. The walls are cracked and hot as well, making climbing very difficult. (You could put an ambush behind the "walls", as well, but that depends on how rat bastardly you are.) Now, the PCs could cross this river of lava with traditional means, if their skills are high enough, but I doubt they have the neccessary ranks in Use Rope, Balance, and so on. They'll probably try to Fly over it. Once they do, the Dragons, who have been scrying on them, (or some of their servants) teleport/cancel invisibility (I'd use teleport if it was the Dragons to avoid the True Seeing if they usually have it up) and use Targeted Dispels.

This will likely take out their flying, their fire resistance, and send them plummeting into the river of lava, taking 10d10 damage. Now, here's where the trap really gets nasty. Concealed within the river of lava are 2-8 Iron Golems, who immediately grapple the closest party members. At this point, one of the Dragons or minions casts Wall Of Force over the river of lava, preventing escape. There are plenty of ways the party can get around this, but in my experience most parties will go for the easy, quick method that they've been using adventure after adventure.

 

[WizarDru]

Yeah. A good trap is the following:

GodDAMN is that nasty. Consider that taken. That's just hideous, and appropriate. I like the idea of magma golems waiting in the flows, too.


As for Dragon types, there can only be two kinds that will be found in Durance Vile: Reds and some Abyssal. Gelban being the exception, for obvious reasons.

 

[LuYangShih]

Infernus is many things, but stupid he isn't. He has uses for Gelban, not the least of which is political hostage. The metallics and chromatics are at war, and Gelban is being used to maintain a fragile peace. Killing him is certain to cause the Golds and Silvers to commit fully to the war, and the Reds are smart enough to not want that. As long as Gelban lives, the metallics are somewhat crippled, politically speaking.

Ah. Well, interesting information. Sounds like a fun campaign world you have going.

Infernus is also loathe to kill him for reasons he wouldn't even admit to others...namely that Gelban is one of the ten oldest dragons in existence, and he's afraid of what might happen if he does. Though my players aren't aware of the fact, Dragons cannot be raised from the dead or resurrected in my world. Death is very final.

Even more reason the Dragons should be utterly ruthless, cunning and destructive when dealing with the PCs.

The tactics you're describing are sound, but it's not my intention to crush the players directly, and make this a two-room encounter. The demi-plane is the size of a small island nation, and not all of the dragons will be in attendance or even cooperative with each other. Ashardalon hates Infernus, and would gladly betray him to the players, if he thought he could kill them later and get away scot-free.

It's like Napolean said, "The logical end to defensive warfare is surrender." If the Dragons do not make full use of offensive strikes, they are simply going to be waiting to be destroyed. Since they can't even be ressurected, I think this is even more reason for the Dragons to make pre-emptive strikes against the PCs. I would at least try to drive them out.

If you're hesitant to kill the PCs, have one of the Dragons capture another PC (easy enough, knock them unconcious then teleport out.) And tell the PCs they can have him back if they leave the fortress and promise never to return. If not, said captured PC is the main course. And it's hard to ressurect someone being digested in a Dragons innards. Although, this may not be effective if the PCs are the type who "we'll never say die, we'll never surrender", and consider losing another PC just a bump in the road.

However, you've just kicked off something I can resolve and use Durance Vile for....Gulthias. The Dragons destroyed Nightfang Spire in my game, and the players never actually engaged him directly. I can template him and he'll fit in nicely, AND allow me to close out that thread entirely.

This is good. Evil is afoot.

Gulthias is around in your game? Did you do the Heart Of Nightfang Spire adventure, then? That's a deadly module. A lot of fun for the right party, though. I'm surprised Gulthias is still alive, given the party makeup you described earlier. Was that the party who went into Nightfangn Spire?

 

[Pielorinho]

Targeted dispels are good -- so are antimagic fields. The PCs will almost certainly have some magic to protect them from the environment; if you can grapple them and bring them within an antimagic field, it's likely to put a deep hurting on them.

Also, a few dragons may want to start the battle by casting dimensional anchor on the PCs: if the battle looks like it's going poorly the PCs may try to teleport (or plane shift) away, and you wouldn't want that, would you?

Daniel

 

[Berk]

And it's hard to ressurect someone being digested in a Dragons innards.

Sure it is, true resurrection.

Now bringing them back as undead, now that is a way to make it hard to bring them back to life.

 

[LuYangShih]

Just note something, not all of the Dragons fortress should be Unhallowed. In fact it's better to use the "death room" idea for the Dragons main resting points and lairs, because if the Dragons get caught into a conflict with the party, they will want to teleport back to their own lair, and they will be prevented from doing so if it has a Dimensional Anchor on it. I cannot recall if Forbiddance has this drawback, I haven't really much use of that spell at all.

Dragons could have alternate means of getting back to their lairs, though, (Ghostform, for example) but generally I would say it's better to keep the Dimensional Anchor spots limited. I do not know what Abyssal Dragons are, but I assume they are fire based. Since both of the Dragon types present in this lair will be fire based, I strongly suggest making the entire fortress burning hot, cracked with flames, the whole deal. The PCs should never enter the fortress without having at least a few fire resistance spells up, and it should be scorching, worse than a desert could ever be, within the fortress.

 

[WizarDru]

Even more reason the Dragons should be utterly ruthless, cunning and destructive when dealing with the PCs.

Hmm. Good Point. I just don't want it to appear that I've thrown tons of monsters at them to make the point. In point of fact the Meepites (as I've nicknamed them) are mostly about offense, and much less on the defense. They've always been rapid-strike in strategy.

If you're hesitant to kill the PCs, have one of the Dragons capture another PC (easy enough, knock them unconcious then teleport out.)

Not a bad idea, but I'd kill them first, believe it or not. The Reds would never molly-coddle them, and they'd never believe them. They'd assume the player was dead, now or later. And they'd be right.

Gulthias is around in your game? Did you do the Heart Of Nightfang Spire adventure, then? That's a deadly module. A lot of fun for the right party, though. I'm surprised Gulthias is still alive, given the party makeup you described earlier. Was that the party who went into Nightfangn Spire?

The same. And they still have a mad-on for him, if just a little one. They quit Nightfang Spire after their second death (the Meepites are usually very cautious) and the firm knowledge that I was metagaming Gulthias and Redbone in particular to minimize their effectiveness. They knew that if I played the module as written, more and more players would die, and the fun factor would decrease. Of the four deaths that have occured in the game, two were in Nightfang Spire. Had we completed the module, I would have killed at least two more.

They did defeat Gulthias by Proxy at one point, killing an undead plant creature called a Greater Gulthite that he was controlling, but that's not really the same thing. The party quit the spire and basically went back to Gelban and said "If you dragons are so damned concerned about this place, YOU do something about it. We're not dying any more." Gelban agreed, and the next time they passed through the area (about six game-months later), they found a blast crater where the crevasse and the spire once were.

We had a lot of discussion about it in our story hour, around page 4, I think.

 

[Wippit Guud]

Well, if the lair is protected against using spells to arrive there, have the entrance to the lair be a tunnel that's completely submerged in lava.

And have a bunch of lava mephits in there who can activate anti-magic fields and head towqrds the PCs.

Toasty!