B5 & Mongoose - Straczynski not pleased

[DaveMage]

http://www.jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?ID=1-17550

Interesting read.

 

[KenM]

Very interesting. To me it seems like WB gave Mongoose permission to use JMS' stuff without letting JMS know.

 

[Ghostwind]

After being privy to some discussion within the industry about past behavior of JMS and his views of the gaming industry/hobby, I've come to the conclusion that he is more than a bit pompous and definitely suffers from an over-inflated ego. JMS really seems to believe that no one is allowed to create B5 stuff without his input and approval and doing so requires a large sum of money. Last time I checked, Warber Brothers owned B5, not JMS and they can do whatever they want with the license and it "will" be considered canon in their eyes, regardless of what JMS says or thinks.

 

[Umbran]

What I've read does indicate that JMS is a hard man to work with.

However, just because the man can be a bit of a jerk doesn't mean that Mongoose behaved well. Note that JMS didn't say these folks had no right to do things - he explicitly mentioned they have a license, and thus a right.

But, let's face it, going through his scripts and notes and using them without talking to him about it is rude. Suggesting his involvement when there apparently was none is beyond rude, inching into false advertising.

 

[Aesthetic Monk]

After being privy to some discussion within the industry about past behavior of JMS and his views of the gaming industry/hobby, I've come to the conclusion that he is more than a bit pompous and definitely suffers from an over-inflated ego. JMS really seems to believe that no one is allowed to create B5 stuff without his input and approval and doing so requires a large sum of money. Last time I checked, Warber Brothers owned B5, not JMS and they can do whatever they want with the license and it "will" be considered canon in their eyes, regardless of what JMS says or thinks.

And that's a good thing?

I doubt whether Warner Bros. cares one whit about what is and is not canon in anything but the most dollars-and-cents sort of way. I'm not painting them out to be evil, but their job is, what?, production, distrubtion, and the like, not art for art's sake. However, if only for sales reasons, they'd be wise, I'd imagine, to be wary of a "JMS-disliked" B5 product, given that he's nearly synonymous with B5 in the eyes of many of the people most likely to buy B5-related material some seven or so years after the last show aired.

 

[Eosin the Red]

What I've read does indicate that JMS is a hard man to work with.

However, just because the man can be a bit of a jerk doesn't mean that Mongoose behaved well. Note that JMS didn't say these folks had no right to do things - he explicitly mentioned they have a license, and thus a right.

But, let's face it, going through his scripts and notes and using them without talking to him about it is rude. Suggesting his involvement when there apparently was none is beyond rude, inching into false advertising.

From the whole sordid post - Matthew indicates that WB gave him the scripts which THEY own. He doesn't have much of aright to gripe about that.

I am not sure about the public nature of the debate because it is hard to tell where it exactly started BUT it seems that much of this stems from an easily offended attitude. Matt certianly has not offered any attitude on the posts and by this point - with that drubbing - I'd be offering to meet in a dark alley to settle this the old fashioned way.

I feel bad for Mongoose and Matt who SEEM to be trying to make good with an over-inflated ego. Pity. I like B5.

 

[thatdarncat]

Sucks, I like both Mongoose and JMS, and I want the rpg books to BE the show as much as possible. I can understand his (JMS) frustration at being left out of the loop - the guy's put a lot of work and a lot of himself into the setting and the show. But he's notoriously picky about what goes into "his" playground. I know the Mongoose folks are big fans of the show - it's not just another property to them.

*shrugs* I hope they can work things out, but either way it won't change much I don't think.

 

[shaylon]

I don't know, JMS seemed to come off like a jerk there. Admittedly, I don't know much about the show, and I don't know what transpired prior to that message, but he might be misunderstanding what actually happens when a company like WB buys your material. If they want a B5 story where the characters of the show want to open a strip club on some moon, then they can have that. It's Warner Bros. now, so cooperate, or don't, it makes no matter. It will be "canon" as far as Warner Bros. is concerned.

 

[TwistedBishop]

I am not sure about the public nature of the debate because it is hard to tell where it exactly started BUT it seems that much of this stems from an easily offended attitude.

It started because Mongoose claimed on a podcast that their upcoming novels were based on outlines by Straczynski. That was a lie, among other lies in the podcast according to JMS. He got upset, posted an open letter to Mongoose, and things went downhill from there.

I do have to side with JMS over this stuff. He's the only one really qualified to say what is or isn't canon for the B5 universe. I don't know if that's legally correct, but I'd wager it's what most of the B5 fans feel.

 

[Eosin the Red]

It started because Mongoose claimed on a podcast that their upcoming novels were based on outlines by Straczynski. That was a lie, among other lies in the podcast according to JMS. He got upset, posted an open letter to Mongoose, and things went downhill from there.

I do have to side with JMS over this stuff. He's the only one really qualified to say what is or isn't canon for the B5 universe. I don't know if that's legally correct, but I'd wager it's what most of the B5 fans feel.

No, it isn't a lie. It is a misunderstanding but there isn't any subterfuge. Mongoose explained within the thread what they meant by "outline" and it is a satisfactory answer - it isn't a laid out five year script outline but they did INTEND to work from 3 scripts and copious notes from JMS provided by WB. I'd call that working from an outline myself. It may not be the technically correct scriptwriters version but it is an outline none-the-less.

I don't think JMS calls the shot on what is or what is not canon for B5 - WB licensing already gave Mongoose permission to place "Canon" on their products. WB owns B5, not JMS. Personally, I prefer it when artists retain creative rights to their stuff but that simply isn't the case here (by my understanding).

Die hard B5 fan myself but talk about a touchy fella. He is clearly in the wrong and it seems by your account he is the one that made this public (not the first time for him). Mongoose made an error in terminology in a podcast and JMS took it public rather than actually answer an email or the phone or even calling WB and telling them to "fix it." On top of that he has irrefutably failed to stay on top of WB licensing current affairs and blames Mongoose for his own lack of comprehension.

I fail to see where anyone could take his side as the "just" side but I am willing to be persuaded. I read through the whole mess of replies and back and forths. Sorting out the "JMS rulz" posts there didn't seem to be much that wasn't answered to my satisfaction by Mongoose. On the other hand, JMS let loose a barage of accusations that were addressed point for point by Matt. Can you specifiy where you think Mongoose is wrong and where JMS is right?