Back in the day...

[buzz]

The most astonishing thing to me is Gary using "him or her" to refer to DMs.

 

[diaglo]

Well his views haven't been current in years. Maybe there's a connection.

but when you talk about things in print you still always use the present tense.

not that i'm disagreeing with you.

 

[rogueattorney]

I find it interesting that the things EGG is lauding as an improvement in the AD&D system, he now criticizes as a detriment in the D&D3 system.

Well, it goes in degrees, doesn't it. From little or no DM guidance, to quite a bit of DM guidance, to the DM being bound, gagged and tied up in the corner while the players dance around the table chanting passages from Savage Species with their half-dragon/half-whatever-the-heck paladin/barbarian/monk characters...

Herm. Sorry, lost control. Personally, I don't see any inconsistency. I think 1e is a much more DM dominated system than either OD&D or 3e, whereas OD&D was more a collaborative effort between players and DM, and 3e is so rigid as to remove much of the DM discretion that existed in the earlier systems.

R.A.

 

[kengar]

To paraphrase Robin Laws in his book "Robin's Laws to Great Gamemastering"; the more defined and "crunchy" the rules are in a given system, the more they favor the players and take control away from the GM.

This isn't in and of itself a bad thing, but a balance has to be found that works for a given group and their GM. I personally think d20 is WAY too crunchy, but YMMV.

 

[Umbran]

Nowadays, the DM must rely on (and arguably be the victim of) the system.

Lots of folks say this, but it is incorrect. Nowadays, the DM may rely on the system. But there's no "must". If you wing it away from the printed rules, there's no police force that's going to come and repossess your books, no fine will be levied, no headsman will come to you door.

 

[Quasqueton]

DM being bound, gagged and tied up in the corner while the players dance around the table chanting passages from Savage Species with their half-dragon/half-whatever-the-heck paladin/barbarian/monk characters...

Oh well, it started out as such an interesting thread. But now it's going into the realm of Edition Wars with absurd examples.

Quasqueton

 

[Arnwyn]

Lots of folks say this, but it is incorrect.

Nonsense. Ignoring the psychological aspect of the game put forth by the format and tone of the rules system is very much shortsighted.

 

[rogueattorney]

Oh well, it started out as such an interesting thread. But now it's going into the realm of Edition Wars with absurd examples.

Sorry, forgive my poor attempt at humor. I was intentionally drifting into exaggerated hyperbole with the hope that it would be taken as a joke instead of a serious argument.

R.A.

 

[Piratecat]

Oh well, it started out as such an interesting thread. But now it's going into the realm of Edition Wars with absurd examples.

I think it's pretty clear he was trying to be funny.

 

[diaglo]

Lots of folks say this, but it is incorrect. Nowadays, the DM may rely on the system. But there's no "must". If you wing it away from the printed rules, there's no police force that's going to come and repossess your books, no fine will be levied, no headsman will come to you door.

but quite a few of the new breed of players will overexaggerate and rant all over you on message boards and in person.