D&D General Back-Learning to 3.5e

[UngeheuerLich]

Pathfinder 1e is a really good improvement on 3.5. It simplifies some issues with skills and cross-class skills, improves a number of classes. Plus, all of its rule additions are available for free at d20PFSRD.

But if you prefer PDFs, Paizo has all of the rulebooks for sale. They‘re quite convenient if you run from a tablet or laptop.

That depends heavily on what you feel what is an improvement.
I for my part see it as fix for the gameplay I would want to avoid (regarding skills).

 

[Andvari]

I wonder what percentage of the player base epic levels were relevant for.

 

[Voadam]

Thanks. I hope you explained it better than I did.

Skill DCs between 10 and 25 usually work well for levels 1 to 15. At level 1, at level 1, usual DCs are 15, while at epic tier (level 10 to 15), usual DCs around 20 work well.

This way, skill based characters feel useful at all stages of the game.

If you set DCs too high, you quench creativity too much, because non magical characters soon feel that risk vs reward is heavily skewed against them.

To follow up on this some skill DCs are set at specific levels in the rules, some in the rules are dynamic comparing one skill to another or against other dynamic factors like damage or CR or whatever. So a flat DC 15 concentration check to cast a spell without provoking an attack of opportunity, but hide skill check is compared to the spot skill check of the person you are getting past so it varies with the enemy and the effective DC can reasonably generally go up with levels.

If you are setting a DC for something not specified like gathering support to your cause in downtime using the diplomacy skill you might want to think about whether you want the DC to be a set thing, something that people untrained can generally do, something that a fighter using maxxed out cross class-skills can generally do, or something that challenges a maxxed out diplomacy bard can do.

If you set it at the maxxed bard level it can negate the fighter choosing to develop their diplomacy as a leader type concept or PCs who are not the face mechanically trying to get anything done at all helpfully in that arena.

So the choice of DCs can be a choice of niche protection or broad participation, which is a style preference issue that can impact whether a PC tries to participate in this way or not.

It is also possible to come up with a system where the higher checks give you different results (how many go to your cause, a certain CR of allies joining that is tied to the result, etc.) so there can be success for all three levels but differences in result as well, but there is no real guidance for doing so.

 

[tetrasodium]

I wonder what percentage of the player base epic levels were relevant for.

That bold bit is critical. Probably close to zero for players. Sometimes the epic spellcasting was useful for GM's building bbegs & such. Readers/authors might have gotten into it for their fanfics but I doubt it saw much use in play from players. for reasons other than plot device assembly & macguffin level interactions.

 

[haakon1]

that route makes skills LESS ANNOYING in 3.5 and ensures your character won't be useless at tying their shoes......or rolling over....or even trying to do anything productive really outside of Yugi-oh style multiclassing combo names.

I assume this is just hyperbole. 3.5e characters don’t need to spend skill points to know things like how to Ride. The majority of skills can be used Untrained.

The Fighter is a bit more....useless compared to the Fighter in 5E … replace it with the Pathfinder 1st edition Fighter.

Seems a little edition war-ish. The OP ask wasn’t “what do you dislike about 3.5e” or “which editions do you prefer to 3.5e”.

 

[haakon1]

I wonder what percentage of the player base epic levels were relevant for.

My guess is very few.

In general, I think D&D at high levels is weird. I’ve never played above 13th in any edition - seems like supers rather than medieval to me.

 

[Voadam]

I wonder what percentage of the player base epic levels were relevant for.

It includes me, I think. I'd have to look but I believe the ECL pushed us into Epic.

It was a high level monstrous PC game. Building up an advanced HD large gargoyle barbarian rogue was fun.

 

[Seramus]

Another vote for Pathfinder. Specifically the video games Kingmaker and Wrath of the Righteous.

Why? Just because video games give you all the time you need to poke around and try things out, learn the rules at your own pace, try out builds, and explore. Yes, Pathfinder is a little different from 3.5, but the leap from Pathfinder to 3.5 is extremely small compared to the leap from 5E to 3.5, and you may just be happy with Pathfinder in general.

Bonus points that Kingmaker and Wrath of the Righteous are on winter sale until January 5th.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

Another vote for Pathfinder. Specifically the video games Kingmaker and Wrath of the Righteous.

Why? Just because video games give you all the time you need to poke around and try things out, learn the rules at your own pace, try out builds, and explore. Yes, Pathfinder is a little different from 3.5, but the leap from Pathfinder to 3.5 is extremely small compared to the leap from 5E to 3.5, and you may just be happy with Pathfinder in general.

Bonus points that Kingmaker and Wrath of the Righteous are on winter sale until January 5th.

I can't comment on the RPG, but the CRPGs were lots of fun.

 

[Art Waring]

Look up E6 D&D 3.5, you are sure to come up with a lot of useful information on how to run 3.5/PF games with less prep and more fun.

Essentially, E6 games I run go as follows:

1. Players stop gaining levels after 6th level. Instead, after 6th level, they incrementally gain feats as they gain more XP, and about four to five feats equal one class level.

2. Players gain the maximum amount of hit points from their hit dice each level.

3. Key villains and NPC's have max HP afforded from hit dice like PC's.

...

Those are the basics, but you can include more complex concepts like adding templates to PC's for an adjusted XP cost to be payed once you become E6 epic before you gain additional feats. So if an LA +2 template costs 2 levels, it costs 8-10 feats in XP.