Bad Guys, Initiative, and Ready

[wedgeski]

Can someone help me out here? Please review paragraph 4 of page 38 of the DMG, and explain to me how, by moving all of one type of monster at once, I can get multiple creatures into flanking positions by using the Ready action analogue that the text mentions, because I don't get it.

My players are gonna skin me alive if I try that trick without having some pretty concrete logic to back it up! It's possible I'm just an idiot. I am willing to entertain that possibility.

 

[Xorn]

Wow. I never thought of that, but it's true. You can ready any standard action.

DM: Okay kobold skirmisher moves to... here, and holds his spear at the ready.
Fighter: He doesn't attack?
DM: Nope, he's poised to strike, but he's not lunged at you.
Rogue: I don't like this.
DM: Okay, so this kobold minion goes next--he shifts twice to here, making the fighter flanked, and the skirmisher strikes!
Fighter: Wait! What?
DM: He readied an action to attack you when you are flanked.
Fighter: ...
DM: Okay... so let's roll some dice here.
Rogue: Sweet! Don't forget he gets Mob Attack, too!
Fighter: You're not helping.

Well, I'm anxious to hear my players the first time I do this. (Mind that they will start doing it afterwards.) Actually... the fighter needs to swing to mark his targets, so I don't see him doing this as much, but the rogue might.

What about a Warlord readying Wolf Pack Tactics for when the rogue gets to one square shy of a flank? The rogue gets to shift, the warlord belts the creature he's now flanking, and the rogue is set up for a sneak attack.

 

[Palladion]

It is a reasonable tactic, usable for intelligent and coordinated enemies (or maybe pack hunting creatures). However, should you use it, be prepared for your players to turn around and do the same. Their delay and ready actions will definitely slow down combat.

 

[Festivus]

A readied action is a standard action, so you can have Orc 1 use his move action to get into postion and then ready to attack when Orc 2 has the flank setup. (Take a gander at p 291 of the PHB)

edit: Remember that if you delay, you must delay your entire turn (after taking your ongoing damages that is). In this case, delay wouldn't help, only a readied action would.

 

[Kordeth]

Can someone help me out here? Please review paragraph 4 of page 38 of the DMG, and explain to me how, by moving all of one type of monster at once, I can get multiple creatures into flanking positions by using the Ready action analogue that the text mentions, because I don't get it.

My players are gonna skin me alive if I try that trick without having some pretty concrete logic to back it up! It's possible I'm just an idiot. I am willing to entertain that possibility.

It's very simple. Ready is a standard action which allows you to take any action as an immediate reaction to something else. So it goes like this:

All orcs have an initiative score of 17. Technically, that means each orc gets a full turn on count 17.

1) Orc #1 moves adjacent to a PC, then readies an action to attack when Orc #2 flanks the PC.

2) Orc #2 moves into flanking position.

2a) As an immediate reaction, Orc #1 attacks with combat advantage because he is flanking the PC with Orc #2.

2b) Orc #2's turn resumes, and he uses his standard action to attack with combat advantage because he is flanking the PC with Orc #1.

3) Technically, Orc #1 now goes after Orc #2, but since you're moving all the monsters on the same initiative (and they can just pull the same trick next round), it's not worth tracking the order the orcs act in on their turn.

 

[wedgeski]

Right, I've just sussed what's happening. I'm mis-reading the description of Ready. The way I've been running it is that the act of Readying limits you to a Standard, Move, or Minor action. In other words, Readying reduces your flexibility and limits what you can do in a round.

The truth, it seems, is that you can Ready any part of your turn which you have left, which means you can move, and then Ready your standard action. Which makes everything the DMG says make sense.

And makes me suddenly realise that I've been running it wrong in 3ed as well, and so have both of my buddies who ran 3ed campaigns which I played in. For like 8 years. Oh man.

Edit: Thanks for everyone's answers. Now I've realised the error of my ways, it all makes perfect sense.

 

[Kordeth]

Right, I've just sussed what's happening. I'm mis-reading the description of Ready. The way I've been running it is that the act of Readying limits you to a Standard, Move, or Minor action. In other words, Readying reduces your flexibility and limits what you can do in a round.

The truth, it seems, is that you can Ready any part of your turn which you have left, which means you can move, and then Ready your standard action. Which makes everything the DMG says make sense.

Not quite. Readying itself is a Standard action, although the action you ready can be any sort of action. So you can move and then ready your attack, but you cannot attack and then ready your move. (Uness you have a power that lets you attack as a minor action, of course.)

 

[Rith the Wanderer]

Be careful, I believe readying ANY action is a standard action in 4e. So if you wanted to ready a move action, it still costs a standard action.

Edit: I believe there are ninjas in the area

 

[StormCrow42]

One thing to consider when playing readying tricks like that is that it's possible that the PCs will somehow prevent the second monster from reaching that flanking position, in which case the first monster's readied attack never goes off either (due to a lack of a trigger).

 

[Orpheo]

I have been using this tactic against my players for years. They have never complained.