[BADD] DM taking it too far?

[Mulkhoran]

Or point out to the GM, that such actions would be more harmful than helpful in the long run, for that campaign. It only causes an arugment and discord if one or the other side decides to be an ass during the process.

Well........yes, of course. That's perfectly reasonable. That's not at all what I was responding to. You said:

Point otu to him the technical illegality of that move, and then inform him you intend to do likewise yourselves. Only, don't stop at two haste spells ... gofor ten of 'em. At once. Per character. Every encounter.

THAT'S what I was responding to.

[/B]
Me, I was thinking, 1 temporary Con damage per round; hit zero, and it's the long dirt-nap for you. After all, 25-degree saltwater isn't terribly much fun to swim in. OFC, protection against cold damage -- or a ring of warmth, etc -- would help IMMENSELY.
[/B]

Well. That's just butchery, plain and simple. This and other things you describe, while GREAT tactics, don't present a "challenge" in the traditional sense of the word. It's just a TPK. There is little to nothing PCs can do against such effects.

Some things from prior editions are worth keeping. In 2E, IIRC, Lightning Bolt went to a fireball-type area, once it hit water (at the mage's fingertips if he was UNDER water, ouchie!).

Yah, yah. Although in 2E, you could originate the LB from a remote point, instead of your fingertips. Still pretty good.



All in all, my only point is being very well made by Berk here. Using real-world physics to define DnD rules is a very bad idea, and doesn't fit well within the game.

 

[Pax]

Well. That's just butchery, plain and simple. This and other things you describe, while GREAT tactics, don't present a "challenge" in the traditional sense of the word. It's just a TPK. There is little to nothing PCs can do against such effects.

Sure there are. Protection against elemental cold. Ring of Warmth. Getting the heck out of the ice asap.

Frankly, if hte party goes into a white dragon's lair, and isn't prepared for cold and/or wet conditions ... they deserve what they get.

All in all, my only point is being very well made by Berk here. Using real-world physics to define DnD rules is a very bad idea, and doesn't fit well within the game.

Sure it does. In the absence of magic (like Endure Cold), real world physics still operate pretty much the same. Lethally cold water ... is still lethally cold water. And besides; with the tp fo the water frozen, the only party members in danger of thermal shock, are those with means to breathe underwater, but NO means to protect themselves form extreme cold.

Again -- if the party encounters a dragon in it's lair, it's because they CHOSE to do so, and were given PLENTY of chances to do their homework and come prepared.

If they don't and it's a TPK ... sorry, it's their own fault. I'll flex and bend encounters to fit the party most of the time, but SOME encounters -- dragons, major NPCs, and so on -- get the "no mercy" treatment. IOW, if you screw up and do something stupid ... you pay for it.

Remember, I said right out: when I put players up against a dragon in it's lair ... it's an event they should remember, and likely tell stories about, for YEARS afterward.

 

[Berk]

You (IIRC) say people survive immersion with "only a chill" -- I say you've never BEEN immersed in icy water, nor known someone who was.

immersed in icy water, yes I have been. I haven't been in below freezing water but I do know what it feels like to be in icy water for extended periods of time. I actually find the cold quite comforting and relaxing, but then again my body temperature norm is above 100 degrees farenheit. I hate the heat and love the cold. I walk around in shorts and short sleeve shirts in below freezing weather just fine, yeah I get slightly chilled but that's about it.