Balance for cure and inflict spontenaety?

[Kahuna Burger]

The general rule for neutral clerics of neutral dieties is that they choose to either spntaneously cure or inflict wounds at character creation. I'm contemplating a diety/clerical order that is seriously into neutrality as balance and can do both.

Is this a very powerful tweak? The simplest balance I could think of would be that the cleric can trade any prepared spell for a cure or inflict spell of one level lower. So you give up a second level spell for a cure/inflict light, not moderate.

Kahuna Burger

 

[Spatzimaus]

Remove Turn/Rebuke Undead, for one thing. So, instead of Cure+Turn or Inflict+Rebuke, you have Cure+Inflict. Inflict spells just aren't that good, IME. You have to be in touch range, and at high levels their damage isn't that hot compared to your normal blasting spells. Sacrificing Turning ability for that seems appropriate.

 

[DreamChaser]

the logical next question is would it be balanced to have turn and rebuke but sacrifice cure/inflict?

I don't think it would be but if one is to be a trade for the other, it should go both ways.

DC

 

[Spatzimaus]

No, it shouldn't automatically go both ways. Ideally, the thing you sacrifice should be worth more than the thing you gain, or else people would min/max automatically. The Specialist Wizard rules, the rules for balancing racial stat modifiers, etc., are kind of like this. So, +2 STR balances against -2 INT and -2 CHA, but the reverse isn't true (-2 STR doesn't balance +2 INT, +2 CHA).

Then, there's the specifics of the situation. If you have Rebuke/Control Undead, then Turn Undead is a useless ability. So, Rebuke + Turn isn't a very good combination at all. Also, how many Turns per day does he get? Double, or not? It makes a difference, thanks to the Feats out there that let you burn Turn attempts.

The point was, if Cure+Turn is a valid combo, and Inflict+Rebuke is a valid combo, and the two are reasonably balanced against the other (or so they claim, personally I think the evil guys get shafted), then how balanced is Cure+Inflict?
The Good Cleric sacrifices Turn to get Inflict. He now has no anti-Undead class ability, in exchange for a line of spells that really isn't that great. Is this balanced? I'd say so, but it depends somewhat on how many undead are in your campaign, and whether you allow the splatbook Divine (whatever) Feats.
The Evil Cleric sacrifices Rebuke to get Cure. Besides the fact that Rebuke/Command lets him actually COMMAND undead, evil clerics have all those nice undead-creating spells to begin with. It's more likely to be useful. It's still a step up in power, but like I said earlier, I thought the bad guys got a bit shafted on balance.

 

[haiiro]

If you decide to create a new domain for this deity, I think allowing affiliated clerics to channel both cures and inflicts would make a perfect domain ability -- and I wouldn't tone it down at all. Being able to both turn and rebuke undead should go along with it, IMO (assuming this god's stance on neutrality extends to undead, which makes sense to me).

I don't even think it's all that powerful -- inflicts aren't all that great, so you'd wind up with a cleric who can channel healing spells and command undead. I don't see a problem with that.

I'd say this is a pretty average domain ability -- not too powerful, but not too weak either: average. IMO, it should be accompanied by an average list of domain spells (since domains are a balance of ability and spells, with good abilities being coupled with weaker spell lists and vice versa).

Cool idea.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

If you decide to create a new domain for this deity, I think allowing affiliated clerics to channel both cures and inflicts would make a perfect domain ability -- and I wouldn't tone it down at all. Being able to both turn and rebuke undead should go along with it, IMO (assuming this god's stance on neutrality extends to undead, which makes sense to me).

I'd say this is a pretty average domain ability -- not too powerful, but not too weak either: average. IMO, it should be accompanied by an average list of domain spells (since domains are a balance of ability and spells, with good abilities being coupled with weaker spell lists and vice versa).

Cool idea.

While this would probably be the simplest solution, it interferes with another key part of the order as I had it planned - that the clerics could choose from almost any domains, but they had to choose ones that could be seen as balancing or in opposition. Healing domain and death domain, or good and evil, law and chaos, fire and water, war and protection, etc, etc. Having a Balance domain eliminates that option until prestige classes.

maybe I should just give up and seperate this into a church and its prestige class...

Kahuna Burger

 

[haiiro]

maybe I should just give up and seperate this into a church and its prestige class...

If you don't want to go the domain route (and your "balanced/opposed domains" option is very cool), then I think this is the best way to give this deity's clerics the flexibility you're after.