Balance of Unfettered in standard D&D?

[Terramotus]

I'm looking to play a swashbuckling type of character in a non hack-and-slash Eberron game that a player from my weekly game is starting up on alternate weekends.

I've ruled out the Swashbuckler from Complete Warrior, as it seems to me to be poorly designed and rather inferior mechanically to hopscotching Fighter and Rogue into Duelist. I've taken a look at the Unfettered from Arcana Unearthed, but it actually looks like it's a bit too much thrown in with a D&D Fighter and Rogue, particularly against the Rogue. I'm certainly not going to try to get him to agree to a class I would question as a DM.

What are your experiences with the Unfettered in with standard D&D classes? If you downtweaked it, what did you change and how did that work out? Paring down the skill list looks like a good start to me, but I'm not sure if that goes far enough.

 

[Camarath]

I had a player use it in one of my games and did not have any serious problems with the character but the character did not wear armor so that might be an issue.

 

[ForceUser]

I have a player playing a Bard/Unfettered swashbuckler-type. The class rocks and works just fine in normal D&D. You might want to clearly define its bonus feat list for D&D since some of the feats don't jibe with the AU list, and definitely don't allow Weapon Specialization. But yeah, great class, go ahead and use it in lieu of the Swashbuckler - I do.

 

[ruleslawyer]

See also mmu1 and I arguing the point over on this thread .

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

The Unfettered is probably better as a Rogue/Fighter in combat - but that is, I think, the point of making it its own class.

The Skill List might seem great, but with 4+INT skillpoints it is not really superior to anyone else.
The Unfettered does use light armor, so you want a high dex. But he gets less Sneak Attack damage die than a straight rogue, so to deal enough damage, you better also have a high strength.
To benefit from Parry, you need a high Intelligence. This also gives you more skill points, allowing you to use more of your skills, but remember that the rest of your ability scores might be quite bad now (Con, Wis, Cha), and this hurts both your survivability (HP, Saving Throws) and your skills.


Number Comparison:
Rogue10/Fighter10: 10d6+10d10+20xCon HP (avg: 90 + 20 x Con hp); BAB +17; Saving Throw Fort +11, Ref +11, Will +6; 5d6 Sneak, (Profiency with all Armor, Shields, Simple & Martial Weapons); 6 Bonus Feats, Uncanny Dodge (Improved), Trap Sense, Evasion, Rogue Special Ability 13 x 8+INT Skillpoints, 10 x 2+INT Skillpoints (average approximately 23 x 5+INT Skillpoints)
Stats: Dexterity, Constitution, Strength (Dex for AC and possibly Attack,
Strength for damage and possibly Attack, Constitution for surviving)
Special Note: Weapon Finesse would fit archetype and reduces need for Strength)


Unfettered: 20d8+20xCon HP (avg: 90 + 20 x Con hp); BAB +20; Saving Throw Ref +12, Fort +6, Will +6; +7 AC Bonus (!); 5d6 Sneak Attack, (Proficiency with Light Armor, shields and all simple and martial weapons and alle exotic agile weapons) 5 Bonus Feat (+1 if AU general ceremony/talent feat is added), Parry, Parry Ranged Attack, Evasion, Parry Magic; 23 x 4+INT Skillpoints)
Important Stats: Dexterity, Intelligence, Constitution, Strength (Dex for AC and possibly Attack, Intelligence for Parry, Constitutiton for HP, Strength for damage and possibly AttacK)
Special Note: Weapon Finesse would fit the arcehtype and reduces need for Strength

Fighter: 20d10+20xCon HP (avg: 110 + 20 x Con hp); BAB +20, Saving Throw Fort +12, Ref +6, Will +6; (Profiency with All Armor and Shields, and all simple and martial weapons), 11 Bonus Feats; 23 x 2+INT Skill Points)
Important Stats: Strength, Constitution (Strength for attack and damage, Constitution for HP.)
Special Note: Typically no need for high Charisma - Intelligence and Dexterity might be interesting for skills and feats.

The Unfettered definetely fits the swashbuckler archetype best, and it is definitely a viable fighter archetype. But he doesn`t have the HP of the "real" Fighter, and he needs better/broader statistics to benefit from his class abilities. He can probably fully compensate for the lack of good armor, unlike the Rogue/Fighter. (Whose armor choice is only restricted by archetype, not class abilities. (Except Evasion and some skills))
The "real" Fighter has more feats, and this might give him much more options in combat than any other of these class archetypes.

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[Darklone]

Go Swashbuckler3/Unfettered