balanced spell point system?

[Thanee]

kind a sorta... they still prepare their spells, which is one thing i'm trying to leave behind.

You want to allow Wizards to cast all spells from their spellbook spontaneously?

Wow! Good luck keeping the balance in check with that.

You will notice, from a rough estimation, that Wizards then become easily twice as powerful as they are now, if you give them the number of spell points suggested!

Spontaneous casting is a HUGE ability. It's not just a gimmick, it's raw power!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

...but does anyone understand the reasoning behind this?

I suppose, it's because otherwise unaugmented spells are too weak overall, and there is even less incentive to not augment them. At a certain character level spells and powers are supposed to have a certain effect.

Bye
Thanee

 

[erf_beto]

Another effect is, that it makes spontaneous casters obsolete, pretty much, when you use the UA system. You could, of course, have prepared casters hash out their prepared spells with all spell points applied in the morning (which would kinda negate the whole point of using it, because it will surely not be simpler than the vancian system then, and will eat up A LOT of time for preparation).

I believe a level 5 druid with 20sp would think otherwise. In the original system, he could cast 3 CLW, 2 Flam.Sphere, and 1 Call Lightning, or just 6 CLW, while with spell points he could memorize 10 CLW and 2 Call Lightning, or just 4 Call Lightning, or even 20 CLW! I agree that it doesn´t get any simpler when you use sp and memorization by the time you get to 10th level, but it still beats vancian slots if you ask me

But most of this discussion revolves around what do you think caster actually do. I believe that wizards, clerics, druids, etc study tomes and books, brew potions, learn secret languages, mix ingredients, pray to gods, sacrifice virgins, etc to infuse themselves with a magical ability, and that´s why they have to 'memorize' spells - wich in my concept is actually preparing the spell to be cast later. Sorcerers and bards dont need that, they are magical beings themselves ('Sentinel detected Mutant Life Signals' kinda magical ).

To me, wizards spend material components while preparing their spells, and for simplicity, dont loose them after casting, they only need to rest in order to recharge them (so I wont ask players what spells they want to prepare for every single day ). On the other hand, spontaneous casters like sorcerers and bards start with Eschew Materials, because magic is natural to them.

My personal problem with spell slots is that, when you cast all your 2 fireballs, you cant cast another, even though you have 20 levitate and 47 knock memorized. Even if you´re a sorcerer, it´s ridiculous having to say "i dont have the power to knock another door, i'm all used up", and then cast dimension door

I like spell points, but the way they are presented in UA makes wizards too good to be true. Having them prepare their pool of spellpoints seems ideal to my view of things. So I will use that, not because it's simpler, but because it's ideal.

 

[Thanee]

My personal problem with spell slots is that, when you cast all your 2 fireballs, you cant cast another, even though you have 20 levitate and 47 knock memorized. Even if you´re a sorcerer, it´s ridiculous having to say "i dont have the power to knock another door, i'm all used up", and then cast dimension door

Heh. Well, a Sorcerer who can still cast Dimension Door can also cast Knock instead.

But I see what you mean...

Bye
Thanee

 

[AbeTheGnome]

You want to allow Wizards to cast all spells from their spellbook spontaneously?

no, i would limit them to the sorcerer's spells known list, probably. and it may be a good idea to just start calling them sorcerers (or mages or something) to eliminate confusion, but i still want them to be cloistered. i still want them to learn their spells from ancient tomes and scrolls, but i want them to be limited in the number of spells that they know how to cast, because not all the spells on the sorc/wiz list would be accessible knowledge for every wizard.

by the way... anyone have any comment on the "roll for spell points" proposition? people will probably say that that makes them under-powered, but where's the middle ground, hm?

 

[Bacris]

One option for Wizards is to go off the Erudite who uses Unique Powers Per Day, but can know as many powers as he wants to spend resources learning.

 

[AbeTheGnome]

One option for Wizards is to go off the Erudite who uses Unique Powers Per Day, but can know as many powers as he wants to spend resources learning.

is this a variant base class? where do i find it?

 

[Pyrex]

by the way... anyone have any comment on the "roll for spell points" proposition? people will probably say that that makes them under-powered, but where's the middle ground, hm?

I think it's a bad idea.

Not because it makes them underpowered. Or overpowered. But because it unbalances "identical" characters with respect to each other.

Also, it becomes more difficult to model a useful progression as spell-points aren't linear, but accumulate progressively faster; a mage transitioning from L16 to L17 should gain far more SP than a mage transitioning from L6 to L7

 

[Pyrex]

Abe, just out of curiosity; flavor-text aside what do you want from a spell-point system that can't be achieved simply by dumping Wiz/Sor altogether and replacing them whole-cloth with the XPH Psion/Wilder?

With a better idea what you're trying to accomplish we can provide better feedback.

 

[Bacris]

is this a variant base class? where do i find it?

It's one of the few worthwhile items in Complete Psionic. It's hidden away in the back of the book.

It's a variant of the psion who can learn as many powers as he wants, but pays XP cost to learn those he doesn't get as part of gaining levels.

Each day he has the option of using any power he knows, but can only use a certain number of unique powers per day... So at first level, whichever power you choose that first time you manifest is the only one you can use for the day.