Balancing a d20 hit die

[Zappo]

Whoa! Using d20 is about the same as a free Toughness every level. I'd suggest using the Barbarian class, with a few tweaks. That's almost exactly what it was designed for.

 

[Khan the Warlord]

Whoa! Using d20 is about the same as a free Toughness every level. I'd suggest using the Barbarian class, with a few tweaks. That's almost exactly what it was designed for.

I don't believe anyone suggested that the class receive Toughness at every level (I know I didn't say that), but at every other, or every three levels.

It is certainly better than a d20 hit die.

 

[mmadsen]

I don't believe anyone suggested that the class receive Toughness at every level (I know I didn't say that), but at every other, or every three levels.

The point was that a d20 Hit Die is equivalent to a d12 Hit Die plus Toughness at every level. Actually, it's a bit better. A d20 averages 10.5 Hit Points. A d12 averages 6.5 Hit Points. Toughness yields 3 Hit Points. A variant Barbarian given Toughness at every level would average 9.5 Hit Points per Level (before Con bonus).

 

[Khan the Warlord]

The point was that a d20 Hit Die is equivalent to a d12 Hit Die plus Toughness at every level. Actually, it's a bit better. A d20 averages 10.5 Hit Points. A d12 averages 6.5 Hit Points. Toughness yields 3 Hit Points. A variant Barbarian given Toughness at every level would average 9.5 Hit Points per Level (before Con bonus).

I'm really wondering if you're missing my main point here: I'm not suggesting *every* level with the Toughness feat.

Here is an example:

A 3rd level character with a Con bonus of +3 and a d20 HD, would have an average of 40 hp.

A 3rd level character with a Con bonus of +3 and a d12 HD and the Toughness feat every three levels (using the every three as an example instead of every other), would have an average of 31 hp.

Now, which one seems more unbalanced?

 

[Gargoyle]

It would really suck to roll a "1" for hit points on a d20 hit die.

 

[Khan the Warlord]

It would really suck to roll a "1" for hit points on a d20 hit die.

LOL... that it would, but I use a house rule for my players to re-roll all 1s with level advancement.

I dunno, call me silly, but a 1 is just discouraging as hell for a PC if they roll it.

 

[Hakkenshi]

In fact, many Oriental characters commit seppuku as soon as they roll a 1 on HP when they gain a level.

It saves time.

 

[mmadsen]

I'm really wondering if you're missing my main point here: I'm not suggesting *every* level with the Toughness feat.

Khan, I think you're missing my point -- and you missed Zappo's point. No one's claiming you suggest Toughness every level. Zappo commented on just how extreme a d20 Hit Die is by likening it to a d12 Hit Die with Toughness every level. He wasn't commenting on your suggestion to give Toughness every third level.

Then I clarified for you what he was saying: d20 is as good as (actually a bit better than) d12 + Toughness at every level.

 

[Khan the Warlord]

Khan, I think you're missing my point -- and you missed Zappo's point. No one's claiming you suggest Toughness every level. Zappo commented on just how extreme a d20 Hit Die is by likening it to a d12 Hit Die with Toughness every level. He wasn't commenting on your suggestion to give Toughness every third level.

Then I clarified for you what he was saying: d20 is as good as (actually a bit better than) d12 + Toughness at every level.

ACK.

Well...

 

[Painfully]

d20 simply IS NOT balanced. There are many ways to acheive a Viking-like class without resorting to d20 HD.

If massive combat ability is what you're after, then consider giving double bonuses to their rage (+8 STR, +8 CON). That alone will make them a more powerful barbarian-type of class.

One skill point per level is a bit harsh. Give them half what the barbarian class would get, and don't offer the fast movement to your vikings. Those changes MIGHT be enough to consider the viking class more balanced, but it would be best to see how things work and adjust from there.

You seem to have thrown in a d20 HD without considering game balance at all. How about basing your viking off the barbarian class and making smaller adjustments (as I just did), rather than trying to go with a d20 HD and then looking for ways to compensate that are also unbalanced.

I could make a wizard with d20 HD too, and to compensate will only let him cast fireball spells and nothing else. NOT BALANCED! Keep it within reason! If your whole campaign is like this, that's fine, but I don't think it's balanced IMO.

*edit*

You asked how to make your berserker stand out more from the barbarian--how do you see the two classes differently outside of combat? Answer that question and use that to help create distinctions. Myself, I don't see a lot of differences at all, so I think the many suggestions to base your berserker-type warrior off the barbarian are more appropriate than trying to create a new d20 HD class.