Balor Origin

Chimera · Jul 26, 2004

I thought this was a "Tolkein Estate" deal. Can't call them Balrogs, call them something else. Can't use the name "hobbit", call them something else. Can't call them Ents, etcetera, etcetera.

Ankh-Morpork Guard · Jul 27, 2004

Chimera said:
I thought this was a "Tolkein Estate" deal. Can't call them Balrogs, call them something else. Can't use the name "hobbit", call them something else. Can't call them Ents, etcetera, etcetera.

It was...but I think its interesting that the change to Balor was actually something mythological on its own. Sure, it doesn't fit the creature perfectly, but still. It almost seems to me that its become Balor-->Balrog(Tolkien)-->Balrog(D&D)-Balor(D&D). Just interesting to me, really.

WizarDru · Jul 27, 2004

diaglo said:
Balrog.... singular ... again there was only 1.

In OD&D, perhaps, but there were plenty of Balrogs in Tokien's world. The Silmarillion even mentions someone named Glorfindel (although not apparently the same one from LotR) who single-handedly defeated more than one (albeit not all at once). Durin's Bane (the Balrog of LotR) was one of the Balrogs that escaped the end of the second age.

UltimaGabe · Jul 27, 2004

If I'm not mistaken, didn't Tolkien get his ideas from D&D, not the other way around?

shilsen · Jul 27, 2004

UltimaGabe said:
If I'm not mistaken, didn't Tolkien get his ideas from D&D, not the other way around?

Aust Diamondew · Jul 27, 2004

I have heard of Balor from celtic mythology in name origin threads long ago.

BOZ · Jul 27, 2004

UltimaGabe said:
If I'm not mistaken, didn't Tolkien get his ideas from D&D, not the other way around?

given that, IIRC, he died in 1973... highly unlikely. and as gary would probably explain himself if he were healthy enough to be here, tolkien was hardly the sole (or even main) inspiration for the D&D style fantasy adventures.

AFGNCAAP · Jul 27, 2004

The word "Balrog" in Tolkien's Elvish (Sindarin, specifically) means "Demon of Might"; bal means "power" while rog means "demon."

I can't say for sure that the name form may or may not have been inspired a bit by Balor, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's just the end result of creating words from his invented language.

As for Gruumsh/Balor, & thus the orcs as Fomorians; that has a bit of a possibility. Then again, Gruumsh could be seen as a sort of Odin-figure (with his son as a Thor-like figure). Or, to take it to another extent, Tolkien's imagery sort of creeps into the orc pantheon as well (at least with the symbols): the Eye of Gruumsh can be compared to the Eye of Sauron; the symbol of the orcish death & disease god can be compared to the White Hand of Saruman. But then again, it's all about how much you want to read into things.

T. Foster · Jul 27, 2004

diaglo said:
in OD&D there was only 1.

Where are you getting this? In vol. 2 all references are plural (e.g. "Balrogs are highly intelligent monsters with a magical nature...") and the No. Appearing is 1-6.