D&D 5E barbarian damage reduction and combat healing economy

CapnZapp

Legend
I have no problem granting Barbarian staying power in combat - that's pretty much his entire thing, so feel free.

However, getting damage reduction, I feel, reintroduces the problem of in combat healing being too good.

Healing Barbarians (or anyone else with damage resistance) is twice as good as healing anyone else.

Now, compared to the playtest, Cure Wounds was halved in healing output, because the playtest found that in combat healing became too good. (This isn't about why combat healing needs to be restricted, but in short: it all but forces the cleric to use her actions on combat healing which for some is not as fun as doing something offensive yourself; spending your actions on healing instead of damage-dealing prolongs combat which is seldom a good thing, etc. Feel free to start a new thread if you have thoughts on combat healing; this thread is about barbarians)

So the problem is: How can we allow the barbarian his "staying power" without making healing effectively twice as good?

Possible solutions:
a) Make Rage make you resistant to healing as well as damage. That is, just as you convert 10 points of damage into 5, you also convert 10 points of healing into 5.
Comment: The easiest solution. It is probably too crude, but it does have the advantage of being simple. It automatically works with all other rules, which can't be said for the following alternatives. Note that it only limits in combat healing: as soon as you turn off your rage, healing works normally again (which is fine).

b) Anytime you enter a rage, you gain a number of temporary hp equal to your current hit points.
Comment: This is more about approximating the current rule than replicating it exactly, to keep it simple. The main thing is achieved: to heal 10 points of damage, you need to apply 10 points of damage, not 5. This alternative doesn't play nice with spells that provide temporary hp.

b1) Like b, but adding "You can only use your temporary hp when taking blunt, slashing and piercing damage" and "if you're a bear totem barbarian, you can't use your temporary hp when taking psychic damage".
Comment: Hewing closer to the PHB rule, at the expense of slight complication. If you use b), you need to rewrite the bear totem ability.

c) When you rage, your current hp is doubled, even beyond your normal maximum. Damage other than blunt, slashing, piercing is doubled. When your rage ends, your current hp is halved.
Comment: Now we're getting wonky, but at least this alternative would work with temporary hp.

c1) When your rage ends, you take damage equal to your maximum hp. This damage cannot be prevented or reduced in any way.
c2) When your rage ends, you take damage equal to ten times your level at the end of your every turn, until you have taken damage equal to your maximum hp.
Comment: this might be needed to prevent abuse. Essentially, if you only survived because your rage allowed you to take more damage than you normally could, you will need healing. Alternative c2 is less abrupt, which is probably better.



Which one do you prefer? Do you have another suggestion?
 

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Celtavian

Dragon Lord
Yep. Makes a 70 point heal spell worth 140 for a barbarian. Given the low damage output of many 5E creatures, this makes barbarians very hard to kill, like insanely hard to kill. Main defense against the barbarian is avoiding them or focusing attacks on a weaker target leaving the barbarian for last.
 

Rune

Once A Fool
The barbarian needs it. Reckless attack pretty much ensures that the barbarian will lose a lot of hp in the process of shortening the fight. If the barbarian is ever in danger of dropping, that means s/he is also in danger of ending the rage.

On the flip side, if the barbarian is never in danger of dropping, it is still more efficient to do the healing after the fight is over, just as with everyone else.
 

Paraxis

Explorer
Efficient magical in combat healing in 5e is all about Healing Word, you wait until your allies are dropped to 0 than you heal them up with a bonus action.

Why? A few good reasons.

There is no penalty for standing up besides a bit of reduced movement, there isn't a threat of an attack of opportunity for instance.

All the damage done to your companion that went over reducing them to 0 h.p is wasted damage you don't have to heal.

The healer doesn't have to be adjacent to the downed person with healing word, and all it takes is a bonus action to cast it so the healer can spend their action doing damage which in turn ends the combat sooner and reduces the amount of healing needed.

So don't heal the barbarian or anyone else until they drop to 0 in combat, it wastes actions and when they get taken down below 0 it is like all that extra damage is a waste, keep your allies hovering at or near 0 h.p.

Now as soon as the combat is over get them back up to max h.p as fast as you can with Healer feat, your sack of goodberries, or cure wounds spells.
 

Chocolategravy

First Post
Possible solutions:
a) Make Rage make you resistant to healing as well as damage.


Efficient magical in combat healing in 5e is all about Healing Word, you wait until your allies are dropped to 0 than you heal them up with a bonus action.


The problem isn't the healing, it's the half damage. At higher levels a barbarian has a lot of HP. Double that and you have so many HP that barbarians can solo CR 24 monsters without dropping. Healing Word's efficiency or changing the efficiency of healing while rage is up doesn't matter.
 

Shiroiken

Legend
I have a Barbarian in my game and 3 times he's been the last man standing on the PC side of things. Twice he was also defeated, and they were captured. The third time, he broke his rage to give the bard (who was next) a potion of healing so that she could heal the sorcerer, who could then blast things with a fireball. This decision prevented a TPK (this time they would be eaten, rather than captured).

The Barbarian has has the staying power, but it's not a problem IMO, because others need the combat healing more than he does :)
 

Fanaelialae

Legend
From what I've seen, the barbarian is incredibly tough if he can get rage up before getting hit. But when he can't he tends to get into trouble rapidly.

It's possible that healing the barbarian might become an issue once Heal is available at level 11. We're only level 7 in that campaign, and IME we don't do much combat healing at that level unless someone is unconscious, so it hasn't been an issue. Healing Word is still the go-to combat healing spell, and it really isn't all that much more amazing when cast on the barbarian than on anyone else.

As such, I don't see any adjustment being needed prior to level 11.
 

We too ran into the problem of Healing Word being too good. As a result, our House Rule is "whenever a character reaching zero hit points they accrue one additional level of exhaustion." It doesn't get rid of Healing Word but it creates a damage track of sorts where getting dropped becomes a serious injury that either takes time or powerful magic.
 

bedir than

Full Moon Storyteller
We too ran into the problem of Healing Word being too good. As a result, our House Rule is "whenever a character reaching zero hit points they accrue one additional level of exhaustion." It doesn't get rid of Healing Word but it creates a damage track of sorts where getting dropped becomes a serious injury that either takes time or powerful magic.

I kind of like this. Although I think it is too hard to get rid of exhaustion, so I probably wouldn't use it.
 

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