Barbarians and reach weapons?

[Fenes 2]

The problem with that is that you can not cleave someone who is behind your first target... you just don't have the reach, as you just threaten the squares 10 ft away form you. Sometimes you might also want to cleave someone in a 90 degree angle 15 feet away... It isn't broken or anything, it's just silly. I don't see why they didn't make cleave B and S only. They have those rules with "keen" as well for instance... I know, technically they are flavour rules, but they are flavour rules that make a helluva lot of sense.

Rav

I can rationalize it enough in that the target ducked or tried to dodge to the side, lining up with the other. I have about the same trouble imaging a cleave by a club - without redirecting the swing it should not hit another.

In that cases I take the results from the crunch rules, and apply flavor to it. If the barbarian cleaves then the two monsters attacking were behind each other for that split second of his thrust. No problem for me.
Trying to curb options for "realistic flavor" reasons while adhering to an abstract 5-foot-grid combat system is somehow not to my taste.

 

[Greybar]

I'd suggest that you not get caught up with Cleave being one sequential blow. After all, a combat round is about a lot more than one swing.

If you've ever done martial arts, or even some physical sports, think about what it is like when you are "on". You fluidly do things that you don't even think about. The Cleave feat is learning how to do that to multiple opponents.

Think of Iginio Montoya in Princess Bride. The five-fingered man orders four/five men to charge him. With his slender blade, Inigio drops them all. Not in one blow, but with a sequence of stab/parry/riposte.

I think that scene would be a great example of Cleave/Great Cleave.

Now look at the same scene and imagine him with a spear. No problem. It's all in the description!

John

 

[candidus_cogitens]

Trying to curb options for "realistic flavor" reasons while adhering to an abstract 5-foot-grid combat system is somehow not to my taste.

I agree. Cleave is not realistic for any weapon really. So it doesn't make sense to restrict the feat to certain weapons on the basis of realism.

Besides, there are numerous ways to envision what might be going on. The simple fact that you have dropped one foe and do not have to maintain your defenses against them might allow you an extra second and a half that you could use for a quick stab against another nearby foe.

 

[drnuncheon]

I can rationalize it enough in that the target ducked or tried to dodge to the side, lining up with the other. I have about the same trouble imaging a cleave by a club - without redirecting the swing it should not hit another.

Cleave with a club is easy to imagine. You hit the first target ina horizontal arc, so hard it knocks him down. The force of the club then carries it across to the second target.

It's thrusting weapons of whatever kind that cleave is hard to imagine with.

 

[Ravellion]

Even with the time crucnhing rules, it's very hard to see how someone would cleave with a spear two opponents who were just flanking him. With a good old axe, he just makes a good spin, and lobs both their heads off! Huzzah!

House Rule: Heck no you're not going to cleave with a spear.

Rav

 

[BLACKDIRGE]

I have always imagined cleave as a kind of an attack reposte. You strike the first opponent with your greataxe/club/spear dropping him and then "reposte" on another target. I agree with the previous poster who stated when you drop an opponent you are granted a split second reprieve to possibley make another attack.

Dirge

 

[Oubliette]

What about all those kung fu movies where a spear is swung around through various arcs? It's how I would picture it.

I can't remember where, but I saw drawings of various moves that halberd fighting schools used in the later medieval periods. I can't attest to their truth, but if they are, it would seem that polearm fighting isn't all massed formations and recieving charges.

 

[ascendance]

I play a half-orc Bbn 1/Ftr 1 who uses a Spiked Chain. Unlike everyone else here, I haven't picked up Combat Reflexes because I haven't gotten enough AoOs to make me want to care. Instead, I'm going down the Power Attack, Power Lunge, Cleave route.

Power Lunge is disgustingly effective if you have reach, and your opponent doesn't. That means you can charge and use it without consequences.

I went with a reach weapon because I fed up with being the first person down in every battle, which is basically what happened when I played a greatsword wielding bbn.

 

[Greybar]

it's very hard to see how someone would cleave with a spear two opponents who were just flanking him.

Piece of cake.

I jam the head of my spear into one man's heart, and then use the energy of withdrawing the spear to drive the butt of the spear into the opposite man's nose, crushing it through his nasal passages and into his brain.

John

 

[HellHound]

For TRUE reach power... once we reached level 12, someone polymorphed our Spiked Chain-wielding barbarian into a Troll...

did you say FIFTEEN foot reach? With Combat Reflexes?

Yoinks.