Bard and Loremaster

[Xanterith]

Currently I am playing a level 4 Bard, 5 Wizard, 3 Loremaster. The question I have has to do with skills and the lore abilities of the Bard and Loremaster classes.

Basically I want to know if there is anything in the rules that says you can only roll one check against something. For example, if you came across a legendary arcane gate or something similar, would you get a roll for Knowledge: Arcana, your Bard Lore Ability, and your Loremaster Lore ability?


My opinion is that yes you would get to roll all 3 and each would give you different information. If all three results were passed for said gate, I think the Knowledge: Arcane would give you information on the workings of the gate, Bard lore would give you information on the stories and history of it, and Loremaster lore would be a little of both. In addition, you may even get more rolls for Knowledge: History and Knowledge: The Planes depending on the function of the gate and what it was used for.

Does this sound reasonable? Last night during our session my DM said that he wasn't sure if it was appropriate that I was rolling both Bard and Loremaster abilities, and while I can see his point, I think both of these get information from 2 independent sources and therefore should have independent rolls.

If they don't, would it be appropraite for them to stack?

Thanks for any help you bring.

 

[smootrk]

If there is no hard rule that details what to do here, then I would suggest using the most appropriate check, with a circumstance bonus or two (coming from other bodies of knowledge but loosely related) to modify it. Seems fair to me.

Three separate checks would sorta triple your chances of success (depends on exact level of skill) - which is not really fair.

 

[two]

ya kidding me?

You have a highly unoptimized but very interesting-sounding PC who specializes in lore and knowledge issues.

Your GM is wondering if...well... you should then be really good at lore/knowledge skills and checks?

YES!!!!

I would be thrilled if I had a player do something like 4 Bard, 5 Wizard, 3 Loremaster.

That's great! Totally "lame" from a power perspective, but very interesting.

YES you get all your checks! Bardic knowledge, Loremaster, Knowledge checks, all seperate.

It's what you are GOOD at. That's what your PC really excells at. Why would you hamstring yourself?

You are a walking encyclopedia (which has plenty of fantasy literature precident). You SHOULD make a LOT of checks!

Rock on, non-combat-optimized PC!

 

[Xanterith]

Two: This has been one of the most fun characters I have ever played. Now that I am starting to get up in level knowledge checks have just become ridiculous. If you want some information on the actual stats/make up of the class I can send it to you. I crafted myself some pretty nifty items, makes things even easier.


Not sure if this is off-topic or not, but here is a little history on where this character came from:

On the plane that I am on Hermetic Arcane magic has been totally outlawed. Sorcerers and other spontaneous casters as well magic items are viewed with fear and distain. Wizards are subject to immediate execution upon proof of being such. I guess some mage way back in the day started some crazy war and ruined it for the rest of us. Bastard. Magic was outlawed and half the world was placed under a continual greater dispel magic suppressing all arcane magic.

Fast forward. Magic is completely forgotten, a lost art. The only thing that remains are relics and artifacts. Sorcerers exist, but they too are hunted and persecuted.

My character, Emerson Radburn, was born to a wealthy baron family who resided in the largest city outside of the dead magic zone. The youngest of 3 brothers, he was always more interested in books and study than noble life. As he entered his teenage years he left home to study and apprentice at the cities library. He studied the histories of the world and was fascinated by the age of magic. As he continued this he discovered some of the basics of Arcane Magic and inside himself the ability to work the simplest of spells. He continued his apprenticeship for many years, studying and practicing late at night alone and away from the watchful eyes of the law and his master. Eventually he was caught working magic, and fled to the countryside before he was imprisoned and executed. He assumed a different name, Zachary, grew out his hair, and began traveling the land. He made his way from town to town and inn to inn telling stories and tales from the books he had read. He made enough money to stay alive and get as far away from the city as possible. He continued to be wary of pursuit and kept up his alter ego. After years of this he made enough extra money to buy a small plot of land outside the town of Landshold Fast. Here he set up a simple shop and sold cures and elixirs to the locals in addition to giving advice on herbalism, alchemy, and the histories of the land. The town was attacked by orcs, he met up with some adventurers, and has been traveling with them ever since. In their journeys they have discovered that the Githyanki have come to this plane in their search for the body of Gith (as far as we can tell). Due to the lack of magical defenses, the psionic Githyanki have pretty much overrun most of the plane. After slaying a Gith mage, Zachary came into possession of his spellbook. It is from here that he truly learned how Arcane Magic worked. He continues to increase in power, and has pledged himself with his party to find a way to defeat the Gith and save his plane.


So from that - started off as a bard with perform oratory, took levels of wizard after discovering the book, went into loremaster after that.

As a side note, I took craft wands and I am currently the parties primary healer, as we don't have a priest. Currently the party is: Sorcerer - Plane Touched Aasimar, Warlock - A traveler from the Astral Plane, Paladin - worshipper of a flame god, and an Iaijatsu Master. The Sorcerer and the the Warlock are recent additions. Prior to them we had a rogue and a ranger, both died. We also had a priest for some time, but he stayed back in one of the cities to continue the fight (stopped showing up to gaming...damn you RL).

 

[atomn]

I'm pretty sure both the bardic knowledge and loremaster lore ability use their class level + Int modifier as the bonus. Since those are two different sources, I'd say you get to two rolls. If the GM won't allow a bardic know and a loremaster lore roll, I definitely think the two classes should stack.

 

[Artoomis]

...If the GM won't allow a bardic know and a loremaster lore roll, I definitely think the two classes should stack.

Yep. One or the other.

 

[Crothian]

Three separate checks would sorta triple your chances of success (depends on exact level of skill) - which is not really fair.

It's very fair. he made the character to be able to do this and it's not a combination of classes most people would recomend. I say get the three rolls since nothing says not to.

 

[smootrk]

It's very fair. he made the character to be able to do this and it's not a combination of classes most people would recomend. I say get the three rolls since nothing says not to.

Difference of Opinion. I see it in a similar vein to stacking of bonuses... ie. does not work unless specifically stated so...

 

[Artoomis]

Difference of Opinion. I see it in a similar vein to stacking of bonuses... ie. does not work unless specifically stated so...

For the lore checks, either he gets one for each class or they stack together. Personally, I think stacking them together makes the most sense.

There could be knowledge checks as well.

The lore checks generate a different sort of information from the knowledge checks, so doing both is fine.

 

[Crothian]

I see it in a similar vein to stacking of bonuses... ie. does not work unless specifically stated so.

There is nothing in the rules about making multiple skill checks that basically involve the same thing. It isn't even close to being the same as stacking, that is adding bonuses together not making more then one seperate skill check.

I do think it would make more sense for the class abilities to stack.