D&D 5E Bard Expertise and Tools
- Thread starter Tigit
- Start date
Blue
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
It says what is says.
Bard Expertise: At 3rd level, choose two of your skill proficiencies.
Rogue Expertise: At 1st level, choose two of your skill proficiencies, or one of your skill proficiencies and your proficiency with thieves’ tools.
Is there something about the Bard listing that would make you think it applies to tools? We don't normally look for clarifications for things that aren't written in the rules at all.
EzekielRaiden
Legend
Unfortunately, as a general rule, you can't get expertise with a tool proficiency. Rogues have a special carve-out for it, and it only applies to Thieves' tools.
It's pretty clear at this point that if they wanted expertise with tools to be a thing, there would be a way to do it. To the best of my knowledge, there isn't one (other than the aforementioned Rogue exception.) That doesn't mean you can't do it, but it's definitely something they're keeping tightly controlled.
It's pretty clear at this point that if they wanted expertise with tools to be a thing, there would be a way to do it. To the best of my knowledge, there isn't one (other than the aforementioned Rogue exception.) That doesn't mean you can't do it, but it's definitely something they're keeping tightly controlled.
Especially if the tool is a musical instrument.
jmartkdr2
Hero
Artificers get tool expertise with all tools at level 6.
EzekielRaiden
Legend
Ah, totally forgot to check Artificer. Alright then, that's how one does it.
I might object to Thieves Tools, only because it steps on the Rogue. Otherwise, I completely agree.
True. Although if there's no Rogue in the party, then there's no worry. Or if the game is one involving lots of traps-- like a dungeoncrawl-- and the expectation is the group might be split up for whatever reason... having a second PC skilled in Thieves' Tools would not necessarily be a bad thing.
Basically check with the game and group and see if an Expertise in TTools would be useful. Otherwise, Expertise in an instrument, as @Umbran mentioned above, would possibly be a good way to go.
And it only steps on the Rogue if a given Rogue would actually want to use their Expertise on Thieves' Tools. Given that playing a Rogue (or any class, for that matter) is supposed to not be necessary to play the game (you want a party of four Druids? Sure, go for it!), it doesn't really make sense to make something a "Rogue-only" option.
Stormonu
Legend
Hmm...that seems too generous, but tool use in the first place is pretty rare. I'd feel more comfortable with expertise in any tool the Artificer had proficiency in.
They might be better off putting the expertise in Performance.
Snarf Zagyg
Notorious Liquefactionist
Gotta say ... every time I see the title to this thread, I see Bard's Expertise in Being a Tool.
Is that really a great argument for disallowing it, though?
DND_Reborn
The High Aldwin
Mike Mearls said it was likely an oversight and agreed it wouldn't break anything to allow expertise in a tool proficiency.
FWIW, I've always allowed it and it hasn't ever been an issue since you don't often roll for tool proficiencies...
Say, something I've wondered; as of Xanathar's, if you have an appropriate Tool and a Skill that would apply to a task, you gain advantage on certain checks. What would happen if you have Expertise in both Tool and Skill?
Plaguescarred
D&D Playtester for WoTC since 2012
Expertise for bards only apply to skills, while for rogues it apply to skills and thieve's tools as well.
Stormonu
Legend
Normally, it'd just be your Expertise bonus with advantage. Personally, I wouldn't be against allowing Expertise bonus + advantage, take 10 minimum (as if you had the Reliable Talent).
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