Bard & Ranger variants - Balance check request
- Thread starter S'mon
- Start date
Arkhandus
First Post
Think of it this way: Compared to a Fighter, your Bard has one degree lower HD, two degrees higher skill points, many more class skills, Bardic Music, two strong saving throws instead of one, and no bonus feats. Overall, I'd say your Bard should get one or two bonus feats, or perhaps regain Bardic Knowledge at perhaps 5th-level, in which case then get a bonus Skill Focus, Great Fortitude, Iron Will, or Lightning Reflexes feat at 15th-level. Then, compared to a Fighter, they'd serve the role of a more skill-diverse warrior with some minor magicks and good reflexes. Perhaps, instead of giving bonus feats/BK, maybe give them instead Uncanny Dodge like a Rogue, and perhaps Skill Mastery once at high level?
Compared to a Fighter, your Ranger has two strong saving throws instead of one, two degrees higher skill points, many more class skills, two/three fewer proficiencies (I find it stupid that Tower Shields were made a separate prof. in 3.5), and three fewer bonus feats, with a smaller selection for their bonus feats. Overall, I'd say your ranger should be get fewer bonus feats (I'd say Track at 1st, then a bonus feat from your list every 4 levels), and a D8 hit die. Maybe, possibly, give them Medium Armor Proficiency to boot. This would make them, compared to a Fighter, a more skill-diverse wilderness warrior with better reflexes, which really wouldn't distinguish them much from your Bard. If you want them to have more of the ranger-ish flavor, then I'd suggest giving them some minor abilities like Wilderness Stride, Trackless Step, Resist Nature's Lure, Timeless Body, and maybe a Familiar, or perhaps Lore/Bardic Knowledge? Of course, then you'd have to replace a few of their abilities, like the feats and strong Fortitude saves.
Compared to a Fighter, your Ranger has two strong saving throws instead of one, two degrees higher skill points, many more class skills, two/three fewer proficiencies (I find it stupid that Tower Shields were made a separate prof. in 3.5), and three fewer bonus feats, with a smaller selection for their bonus feats. Overall, I'd say your ranger should be get fewer bonus feats (I'd say Track at 1st, then a bonus feat from your list every 4 levels), and a D8 hit die. Maybe, possibly, give them Medium Armor Proficiency to boot. This would make them, compared to a Fighter, a more skill-diverse wilderness warrior with better reflexes, which really wouldn't distinguish them much from your Bard. If you want them to have more of the ranger-ish flavor, then I'd suggest giving them some minor abilities like Wilderness Stride, Trackless Step, Resist Nature's Lure, Timeless Body, and maybe a Familiar, or perhaps Lore/Bardic Knowledge? Of course, then you'd have to replace a few of their abilities, like the feats and strong Fortitude saves.
At level 10+(earlier if the character is going for it) UMD means consistent use of wands, scrolls, staffs and you name it. That suddenly allows selfbuffs, ranged magic attacks and so on. Low level wands and scrolls are pretty cheap in a standard wealth campaign.
The bard suggested loose only spellcasting, Still has bardic knowledge and the HD was upped to d10. I'd say that bard is already better than a fighter.
Li Shenron
Legend
At first sight, the Bard seems to me to lose a little more than he gains, but I don't know what would be best to give as a bonus.
The Ranger is also IMHO quite too good. It's a Fighter who for 3 less feats & armor prof got one more good ST (alone worth far more than a feat), better HD (an the average worth an Improved Toughness), and triple the skill points to spend... I would have this instead of Fighter anytime!
It is also too similar to the fighter in flavor, which bothers me a little, but you already pointed out that's ok with you.
The Ranger is also IMHO quite too good. It's a Fighter who for 3 less feats & armor prof got one more good ST (alone worth far more than a feat), better HD (an the average worth an Improved Toughness), and triple the skill points to spend... I would have this instead of Fighter anytime!
It is also too similar to the fighter in flavor, which bothers me a little, but you already pointed out that's ok with you.
Thanks for continued feedback everyone. 
My campaign world is lower magic than standard, hence a more warrior-ish Ranger without magic powers and a non-spellcasting warrior Bard, likewise PCs can't easily buy wands etc which limits use of UMD.
Arkhandus, I like your idea of reducing the Ranger bonus feats; I think I'll adopt that
so they get Track at 1st & then bonus feats at 5th, 9th, 13th, & 17th. I think that solves the overpower issue. That's 4 free bonus feats instead of 7 across his career, and a much longer wait for the first one.
My campaign world is lower magic than standard, hence a more warrior-ish Ranger without magic powers and a non-spellcasting warrior Bard, likewise PCs can't easily buy wands etc which limits use of UMD.
Arkhandus, I like your idea of reducing the Ranger bonus feats; I think I'll adopt that
so they get Track at 1st & then bonus feats at 5th, 9th, 13th, & 17th. I think that solves the overpower issue. That's 4 free bonus feats instead of 7 across his career, and a much longer wait for the first one.
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