D&D 5E Bardic Lore: A Basic College of Lore Bard Guide
- Thread starter Zardnaar
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Aimian_Silverflash
First Post
Great Guide, thanks Zardnaar! I've played my bard up to 5th level now, and most of your comments are spot-on. I do have a couple comments, but please don't think I am being overly critical, your guide is excellent.
I think you were a little harsh on the Elves, a Longbow with +2 Dexterity has proven to be really powerful for me. My bard has an 18 dex, dealing 1d8+4 damage from 150 feet... I do as much damage as the Fighters, and I do it Legolas style, without casting a single spell.
Other races can do this with a light crossbow, but not with such a good dex, and not from as great a range. Dexterity is the new super-skill in this edition.
I personally count Deception & Persuasion as Gold skills. The bard is one of only a couple "face" classes in the game, and no class does it better. And these skills are mandatory for a "face" character, IMHO.
I don't agree that Vicious Mockery is gold, and this is mostly because of the 1d4 damage. It's pretty pitiful. Any good ranged weapon with a decent dex bonus is far superior, as detailed above. My bard has it, and it's been situationally decent when facing off against a half-dragon that hits like a freight train (not that we see those in Horde of the Dragon Queen or anything, haha) but otherwise it's pretty mediocre.
I think not taking any healing spells is a mistake, personally. Anyone that has access to them should take at least one of Healing Word or Cure Wounds. I personally like Healing Word, because it says to your party "Hey, I'm not your healbot, I'm your bard! But I can keep you up in an emergency from 60' away, if necessary, and I don't have to give up my action to do it." -And sometimes being able to do just that means the difference between winning an encounter, and having a TPK.
I consider Disguise Self blue, if not light blue, personally. In the hands of a bard with deception and persuasion? The possibilities are endless, and it makes most any social encounter ez-mode. It can even turn a combat encounter into social encounter! The only way it becomes redundant is if you have someone with the Charlatan background, and is good with a disguise kit.
Crown of Madness is definitely not light blue, not if you go specifically by the rules as written. You can't control their movement, and therefore the spell is useless after the first round. It is far outclassed by Hold Person, and Hold Person doesn't stop you from getting any actions like CoM does. -Heck, it's even outclassed by Tasha's Hideous Laughter...
Just my two coppers. Good stuff man. Keep it up.
I think you were a little harsh on the Elves, a Longbow with +2 Dexterity has proven to be really powerful for me. My bard has an 18 dex, dealing 1d8+4 damage from 150 feet... I do as much damage as the Fighters, and I do it Legolas style, without casting a single spell.
Other races can do this with a light crossbow, but not with such a good dex, and not from as great a range. Dexterity is the new super-skill in this edition.I personally count Deception & Persuasion as Gold skills. The bard is one of only a couple "face" classes in the game, and no class does it better. And these skills are mandatory for a "face" character, IMHO.
I don't agree that Vicious Mockery is gold, and this is mostly because of the 1d4 damage. It's pretty pitiful. Any good ranged weapon with a decent dex bonus is far superior, as detailed above. My bard has it, and it's been situationally decent when facing off against a half-dragon that hits like a freight train (not that we see those in Horde of the Dragon Queen or anything, haha) but otherwise it's pretty mediocre.
I think not taking any healing spells is a mistake, personally. Anyone that has access to them should take at least one of Healing Word or Cure Wounds. I personally like Healing Word, because it says to your party "Hey, I'm not your healbot, I'm your bard! But I can keep you up in an emergency from 60' away, if necessary, and I don't have to give up my action to do it." -And sometimes being able to do just that means the difference between winning an encounter, and having a TPK.
I consider Disguise Self blue, if not light blue, personally. In the hands of a bard with deception and persuasion? The possibilities are endless, and it makes most any social encounter ez-mode. It can even turn a combat encounter into social encounter! The only way it becomes redundant is if you have someone with the Charlatan background, and is good with a disguise kit.
Crown of Madness is definitely not light blue, not if you go specifically by the rules as written. You can't control their movement, and therefore the spell is useless after the first round. It is far outclassed by Hold Person, and Hold Person doesn't stop you from getting any actions like CoM does. -Heck, it's even outclassed by Tasha's Hideous Laughter...
Just my two coppers. Good stuff man. Keep it up.
I disagree with the poster above about Vicious Mockery (VM) and Crown of Madness (CoM).
Both are incredibly useful in a encounters with fewer but stronger enemies (as opposed to being outnumbered by weaker ones). Hell, I'd take VM even if it didn't do any damage. Giving disadvantage to a dragon without expending a spellslot is an OP cantrip IMO.
And the best use of CoM is before the group initiates--sneak up (120ft range means you guys don't have to get too close), and CoM the enemy leader (I wouldn't waste CoM on a weak enemy) and just stand back and let him kill a few of his minions before you guys run in. Hell, if the enemies are distracted fighting their CoMed leader, you can probably convince your DM to give you all advantage on your first surprise attack round. Remember, you can use Cutting Words to maintain control of your puppet. CoM doesn't scale well, so I'd drop it for Hold Person or Hold Monster after level 5ish.
tl;dr In encounters against fewer but stronger monsters, VM and CoM shine.
Both are incredibly useful in a encounters with fewer but stronger enemies (as opposed to being outnumbered by weaker ones). Hell, I'd take VM even if it didn't do any damage. Giving disadvantage to a dragon without expending a spellslot is an OP cantrip IMO.
And the best use of CoM is before the group initiates--sneak up (120ft range means you guys don't have to get too close), and CoM the enemy leader (I wouldn't waste CoM on a weak enemy) and just stand back and let him kill a few of his minions before you guys run in. Hell, if the enemies are distracted fighting their CoMed leader, you can probably convince your DM to give you all advantage on your first surprise attack round. Remember, you can use Cutting Words to maintain control of your puppet. CoM doesn't scale well, so I'd drop it for Hold Person or Hold Monster after level 5ish.
tl;dr In encounters against fewer but stronger monsters, VM and CoM shine.
Mistwell
Crusty Old Meatwad
You thinking of continuing this guide?
Zardnaar
Legend
Yes i got sidetracked with RL and there are a lot of 5 lvl spells to go through. It gets easier once you get to the level 7+ spells as there are a lot less of them and there are a few that stand out a lot.
travathian
First Post
Here's my 2 coppers...
Races:
Elves (all) as blue. The +2 to dex plus the elven racial abilities tie in well to the lore bard and its many skills that will be dex based. They essentially get a +1 skill with Keen Senses, cause really, most bards are going to take Perception anyway.
Half-elf as gold. Regardless of the human variant, this is clearly the gold standard. Compare the two and it is easy to see.
Human variant - Ability +1 x2, bonus Skill +1, Feat +1
Half-elf - Cha +2 and Ability +1 x2, Bonus Skill +1 x2, Language +1, Darkvision, magic sleep immunity, advantage against charm.
So basically you are trading away everything in bold to gain... 1 Feat. No dice. Feats are awesome and all, but not that awesome. And at first ability score improvement, the half-elf can take a feat while the human takes +2 Cha, and the Half-elf is still up an extra skill, language and racial abilities.
Abilities:
Additional Magic Secrets - I think it is important to note that these do not count against spells known. I would also like to see good spell options to pick from moved to this section, instead of the spells section lower, and fleshed out some more(ie color rankings).
Skills:
Lore skills (arcana, nature, religion, history) all black, and possibly blue or light blue depending on campaign. You are a College of Lore Bard...
Survival - purple, if not red. You don't really turn to the bard when it comes time to track the bad guys in the forest.
Animal Handling - see above
Persuasion - gold, bard and persuasion go hand in hand, must have as the face of the group
Perception - light blue, you get lots of skills, so chances are this will make it in, but few other classes will excel at CHA skills like you do, so those should be your focus.
Insight - If no one else is going to take it, light blue. Otherwise blue. Lots of classes have access to it, but have other priorities to focus on, likely leaving it to you or the rogue to take it.
Backgrounds
typo - "if your bard it the Rogue" should be is
I think picking a background that gains proficiency in thieves tools is huge, even if you already have a rogue. Need to disarm a trap or open a lock? With proficiency you can use the Help action to give your Rogue advantage on their ability check. So on top of their Rogue abilities giving them a bonus, now they get to roll 2 dice. Trap, what trap?
Cantrips
Friends - black, if only because the short duration and the fact that the target knows what you did when it ends, limiting its usefulness in many situations
Presitidigitation/Minor Illusion - light blue, both of these have huge potential from the bard as far as performing, distracting, deceiving, etc.
Mage hand - blue, a rogues best friend, and well, a bard is half-rogue
Light/Dancing lights - red, ugh, so lame. I can light a torch/candle/fire with presitidigitation
Message - black, with potential for blue. If you are familiar with the target and know its approximate location, you don't need line of sight. The out-of-combat possibilities are baffling.
Level One
Faerie Fire - "On of the best" should be One
Level Two
Silence - same as FF
Crown of Madness, agree with faria, and that is a good example. CoM and Hold Person are not interchangeable, and hard to directly compare. CoM is more situational, but in those situations it is exceedingly powerful. Even in battle it can be useful to have the big brute immediately turn on its allies, possibly leading to its early demise as both sides attack it.
Level 3
Magic Secrets, again I would move to the Abilities section. Heck, it almost deserves a whole section of its own.
Races:
Elves (all) as blue. The +2 to dex plus the elven racial abilities tie in well to the lore bard and its many skills that will be dex based. They essentially get a +1 skill with Keen Senses, cause really, most bards are going to take Perception anyway.
Half-elf as gold. Regardless of the human variant, this is clearly the gold standard. Compare the two and it is easy to see.
Human variant - Ability +1 x2, bonus Skill +1, Feat +1
Half-elf - Cha +2 and Ability +1 x2, Bonus Skill +1 x2, Language +1, Darkvision, magic sleep immunity, advantage against charm.
So basically you are trading away everything in bold to gain... 1 Feat. No dice. Feats are awesome and all, but not that awesome. And at first ability score improvement, the half-elf can take a feat while the human takes +2 Cha, and the Half-elf is still up an extra skill, language and racial abilities.
Abilities:
Additional Magic Secrets - I think it is important to note that these do not count against spells known. I would also like to see good spell options to pick from moved to this section, instead of the spells section lower, and fleshed out some more(ie color rankings).
Skills:
Lore skills (arcana, nature, religion, history) all black, and possibly blue or light blue depending on campaign. You are a College of Lore Bard...
Survival - purple, if not red. You don't really turn to the bard when it comes time to track the bad guys in the forest.
Animal Handling - see above
Persuasion - gold, bard and persuasion go hand in hand, must have as the face of the group
Perception - light blue, you get lots of skills, so chances are this will make it in, but few other classes will excel at CHA skills like you do, so those should be your focus.
Insight - If no one else is going to take it, light blue. Otherwise blue. Lots of classes have access to it, but have other priorities to focus on, likely leaving it to you or the rogue to take it.
Backgrounds
typo - "if your bard it the Rogue" should be is
I think picking a background that gains proficiency in thieves tools is huge, even if you already have a rogue. Need to disarm a trap or open a lock? With proficiency you can use the Help action to give your Rogue advantage on their ability check. So on top of their Rogue abilities giving them a bonus, now they get to roll 2 dice. Trap, what trap?
Cantrips
Friends - black, if only because the short duration and the fact that the target knows what you did when it ends, limiting its usefulness in many situations
Presitidigitation/Minor Illusion - light blue, both of these have huge potential from the bard as far as performing, distracting, deceiving, etc.
Mage hand - blue, a rogues best friend, and well, a bard is half-rogue
Light/Dancing lights - red, ugh, so lame. I can light a torch/candle/fire with presitidigitation
Message - black, with potential for blue. If you are familiar with the target and know its approximate location, you don't need line of sight. The out-of-combat possibilities are baffling.
Level One
Faerie Fire - "On of the best" should be One
Level Two
Silence - same as FF
Crown of Madness, agree with faria, and that is a good example. CoM and Hold Person are not interchangeable, and hard to directly compare. CoM is more situational, but in those situations it is exceedingly powerful. Even in battle it can be useful to have the big brute immediately turn on its allies, possibly leading to its early demise as both sides attack it.
Level 3
Magic Secrets, again I would move to the Abilities section. Heck, it almost deserves a whole section of its own.
krunchyfrogg
Explorer
Great guide!
Aimian_Silverflash
First Post
I don't mean to get all rules lawyer on you guys, but let's break this spell down really quick:
The charmed target must use it's action before moving on each of its turns to make a melee attack against a creature other than itself that you mentally choose.
OK, so you charmed a BBEG, and then on his initiative, you have him attack one of his own. Excellent! But then what happens? Your DM simply moves him out of range of any other enemies. Or they move away from their friend that just went crazy. Not inconceivable!
So your turn comes up, and you have to forgo your action to maintain control... sigh. You might get to give some bardic inspiration, or do a healing word if you're lucky... But really, you're out of the fight. Just to maintain a spell.
BBEG's turn comes up again... What are you going to do, have it attack your party member? No. So then you go to the next line of the spell:
The target can act normally on it's turn if you choose no creature or if none are within range.
That's right folks, it can do whatever. it. wants. Making your spell useless. -Oh, and it gets better!
On your subsequent turns, you must use your action to maintain control over the target, or the spell ends.
So not only did you spend a 2nd level spell slot and an action to have a single enemy make a single attack, you have to forgo your main action on all subsequent rounds with the hope that your DM is going to be nice enough to move one of his guys close to him.
Are you guys getting the picture? Because that's exactly what happened to me the two times I've used the spell.
Since I replaced the spell with Hold Person
I've used Hold Person twice, and both times I've used it, it's been absolutely devastating. Go read the Paralyzed condition, page 291 of the PHB... People attacking that enemy have advantage, and auto-crit. That's an absolute death sentence when you have a rogue and a fighter in your group! And that's exactly what's happened everytime I've used it.
So no. CoM, as written, is NOT sky blue. But if you have a DM that lets you get away with more than what the spell says you can, I could see it having a bit more potential. But in our game? Nope.
The charmed target must use it's action before moving on each of its turns to make a melee attack against a creature other than itself that you mentally choose.
OK, so you charmed a BBEG, and then on his initiative, you have him attack one of his own. Excellent! But then what happens? Your DM simply moves him out of range of any other enemies. Or they move away from their friend that just went crazy. Not inconceivable!
So your turn comes up, and you have to forgo your action to maintain control... sigh. You might get to give some bardic inspiration, or do a healing word if you're lucky... But really, you're out of the fight. Just to maintain a spell.
BBEG's turn comes up again... What are you going to do, have it attack your party member? No. So then you go to the next line of the spell:
The target can act normally on it's turn if you choose no creature or if none are within range.
That's right folks, it can do whatever. it. wants. Making your spell useless. -Oh, and it gets better!
On your subsequent turns, you must use your action to maintain control over the target, or the spell ends.
So not only did you spend a 2nd level spell slot and an action to have a single enemy make a single attack, you have to forgo your main action on all subsequent rounds with the hope that your DM is going to be nice enough to move one of his guys close to him.
Are you guys getting the picture? Because that's exactly what happened to me the two times I've used the spell.
Since I replaced the spell with Hold Person
I've used Hold Person twice, and both times I've used it, it's been absolutely devastating. Go read the Paralyzed condition, page 291 of the PHB... People attacking that enemy have advantage, and auto-crit. That's an absolute death sentence when you have a rogue and a fighter in your group! And that's exactly what's happened everytime I've used it.
So no. CoM, as written, is NOT sky blue. But if you have a DM that lets you get away with more than what the spell says you can, I could see it having a bit more potential. But in our game? Nope.
Last edited:
Aimian_Silverflash
First Post
On a better note, and more on topic, I'd like to make mention of the MVP of 2nd level. Invisibility.
Now, let me preface this with the fact that my DM is very conservative with what we can do with Stealth. Basically unless we are behind something or in an extremely dark room with enemies that don't have darkvision, he's basically ruled that if a monster looks in your general direction, he will see you. And combat? Forget about it. Stealth is basically useless.
So with that in mind, I picked up Invisibility, and I am basically the group's "go get stuff done" guy now. Other than disarming traps and opening locks, I've basically put the Rogue out of a job with this spell... So much so that the Rogue of the group has complained about it.
Invisibility is just awesome. Definitely Gold for me, as far as a Lore Bard is concerned.
Now, let me preface this with the fact that my DM is very conservative with what we can do with Stealth. Basically unless we are behind something or in an extremely dark room with enemies that don't have darkvision, he's basically ruled that if a monster looks in your general direction, he will see you. And combat? Forget about it. Stealth is basically useless.
So with that in mind, I picked up Invisibility, and I am basically the group's "go get stuff done" guy now. Other than disarming traps and opening locks, I've basically put the Rogue out of a job with this spell... So much so that the Rogue of the group has complained about it.
Invisibility is just awesome. Definitely Gold for me, as far as a Lore Bard is concerned.
FormerlyHemlock
Hero
Not quite anything. It can't attack you, because it's charmed.
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