Pathfinder 1E Bardic performance in combat

[MJS]

Horrible idea, OP, don't do this. "That is awesome" is the part you should concentrate on, skip the rest. "Screw the rules" is about as helpful as a fist to the face when somebody is asking a rules question...

I lol'd at that. I only mean it as an empowerment. I believe in all of your abilities to craft the most awesome games for your groups, sincerely.
I do however, disagree that "that is awesome" be the guidepost here. It is a matter of style, not right or wrong.
Personally, I don't think it "nerfs" the class to apply a little sense to the situation. How do you sing a song and verbally cast at the same time? That's not awesome, that's rules-encoded dumbness. Hence the comment about the axe. GMs should feel free to hack away at dumb rules. It's how we ended up with things like PF in the first place.
The 2E Bard couldn't do anything but move while engaging this same function. It *is* awesome to have them fighting while singing, but geez, a -1 is seen as ruining the class? How about a -3 that becomes a +3 at high levels?
There are many possibilities here. Make what you will of it. I confess to being somewhat of a ninja, in that I have only played a handful of PF sessions, and have only GMd Mentzer--->3.x, and mean no disrespect to the PF rules, other than to say screw 'em and have fun. Peace owt -

 

[Greenfield]

For Bards, the song *is* the "verbally cast".

The realism challenge, to me, is someone having that much breath control. In a real fight, everyone is breathing hard, pounding air in and out of their lungs as fast as they can. Singing slows that down.

So I have no problem with doing it in a formal duel, where speed and technique prevail over power, but in an open brawl?

Of course, I have a similar problem with the big guy swinging his greatsword at full power for a full minute. (The old joke was, take two phone books, one in each hand, and slam them together at arm's length as fast as you can for a minute. That would be equivalent to one round of combat in AD&D. Now do it for 10 minutes. )

So we allow the fighter to have his unrealistically gory blood bath for hours on end, but balk at the Bard's ability to sing for the same period?

 

[MJS]

For Bards, the song *is* the "verbally cast".

The realism challenge, to me, is someone having that much breath control. In a real fight, everyone is breathing hard, pounding air in and out of their lungs as fast as they can. Singing slows that down.

So I have no problem with doing it in a formal duel, where speed and technique prevail over power, but in an open brawl?

Of course, I have a similar problem with the big guy swinging his greatsword at full power for a full minute. (The old joke was, take two phone books, one in each hand, and slam them together at arm's length as fast as you can for a minute. That would be equivalent to one round of combat in AD&D. Now do it for 10 minutes. )

So we allow the fighter to have his unrealistically gory blood bath for hours on end, but balk at the Bard's ability to sing for the same period?

Well. Why we think the fighter is doing the equivalent of mashing X on a gamepad I don't quite see.
But yes I balk at not potentially losing the song when hit with a warhammer, I balk at the implication of somehow spellcasting while singing(?), and, thinking also of the oxygen issue, thought a -1 wasn't too severe.
All in good fun...
Or just consider the song not a round-long action, but a magical bardic phrase, a la "here I come to save the daaaay!", and the effect kicks in for x rounds. Three notes on the horn, and...The player gets the same functionality, but it makes a bit more sense. Then the singing while fighting can become a whole separate feat, or just an on the fly thing that the player can pick the effect of. I'd love to see the Bard have some very fluid, almost wild magic like that.
Sorry, I am a habitual rules tinkerer. Not out to ruin anybody's trip.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

FWIW, if you're trained to do it, singing while doing strenuous activity can be done. It's all about breath control.

 

[Greenfield]

I don't think maintaining a Bardic Music effect in combat is about holding a note while being hit (though many a trained singer can do exactly that). It's about maintaining the effect while getting hit. That is, even if a blow causes them to drop the melody for a moment, can they pick it up again and keep the magical effect going? That's more the question.

As a clarification, while bardic singing is the verbal component for their magic, Bardic Music is something separate.

My Bard sings a quick dance step ditty, and casts Haste. The spell now continues for the full duration, whenher the Bard gets hit, or even killed.

My Bard sings a "Make the blood boil" type battle song to Inspire Courage, and he has to keep on singing to make the effect last. That one begins to fade if the Bard goes down. (Commonly lasts 5 rounds after the music stops, but certain feats can double that.)

The first is Bardic casting of a spell, the second is Bardic Music. Both require an element of verbal performance (be it singing, oratory, chanting or whatever). Only one requires ongoing performance.