Bards: do they even use feats?

[darkbard]

In my game, Bards tend to stick to the following feats:

Improved Dying

Unsuccessful Strike

Skill Focus: Suck

Minimize Spell

Craft: New Character

okay, i almost never post just to comment on an amusing response, but this one had me laughing out loud.

 

[Guilt Puppy]

Spell Focus and Weapon Finesse seem the best-suited so far... Others:

Dodge? Mobility? Both useful feats in their own right... And they lead into Spring Attack, which is very nice for a Bard with Boots of Striding and Springing. Of course, this requires a Dex of 13+, but if you're thinking about Finessing I assume you have that.

While you're at it, might as well throw in Expertise if you meet the Int... If you do end up in melee, it can be an excellent survival tool (which doesn't force you to cower in Full Defense ) Heck, if you do all this, Whirlwind Attack becomes a possibility. Throw in Quick Draw, and you can give a nasty surprise to enemies that surround you, thinking you to be nothing more than petty minstrel...

And to avoid being another petty minstrel? Toughness is not a terrible choice for surviving lower levels... For that matter, the saving throw feats are also of universal appeal (either to min-max, or to bolster your weaknesses.) At higher level, Spell Penetration becomes a necessity... And then there are always the metamagic feats.

Oh, and it costs two feats, but let me tell you I've gotten a surprising amount of mileage out of getting Deflect Arrows for a Sorceror I've been running... Would have similar benefits for a Bard -- no, better, because of their Reflex saves. Synergizes well with Lightning Reflexes, for that matter Improved Unarmed Strike (the prereq) still isn't a terrible thing for a Bard to have, although Quick Draw is generally a better substitute... Still, it's something to consider.

"But Guilty," I hear you saying, "that's too many feats! Even at twentieth level, I'll only have eight, and you've listed more than that!" From that you might infer: There are plenty of good feats for Bards to choose from. Their use just isn't as obvious as it is for other classes...

 

[Fenes 2]

I have taken (among others) lingering song and extend spell for my bard, and have used both too good effect. Weapon Finesse (Rapier) would also be a useful feat imho.

 

[eXodus]

i am playing a 2nd level rogue/2nd level human bard right now in a game.

for feats i took weapon focus (whip dagger), point blank shot, and improved initiative.

 

[toberane]

Scribe scroll... Isn't that REAL expensive. Say you want to scribe a second level spell. You have to be a 7th level character. Using the formula lvlxcLx25 a second level spell would cost your bard 2x7x25=350gp to create. He could buy the same spell for 150 gp...

I know there's been a lot of discussion about this point, but another thing to consider is that a 7th level bard's caster level is not 7. If I recall the rules correctly (and I had to look long and hard to find this rule for a Ranger one time) all the minor spellcasting classes--bard, ranger, paladin--are considered to be 1/2 their class level when calculating Caster Level.

I know this is the case with classes like ranger and paladin who don't start casting spells for a few levels, and I'm 99% sure that the same holds true for bards as well.

 

[Old Fezziwig]

Actually, bards cast spells at their level. Only paladins and rangers have caster level = 1/2 class level.

Best,
tKL

 

[krunchyfrogg]

The Archer Bard is the most effective (at least combat wise) Bard I've seen. As noted above, you don't really need any feats for this class, so dumping them all into archery feats works out nicely.

 

[toberane]

Actually, bards cast spells at their level. Only paladins and rangers have caster level = 1/2 class level.

Best,
tKL

Really? I'll take your word for it. I used to play bards all the time (2nd Ed.) but since 3E started, I think I've played a grand total of one gaming session as a bard. I'd much prefer a Rogue any day.

 

[Old Fezziwig]

Hi, toberane. I realized after I posted it that my post didn't really have any citation or support for my statement, so it looks kind of silly, but it's hard to cite things that aren't there. Wasn't really aiming for the tone my post achieved.

If you don't want to take my word for it, I can point you to the sections on spells for the three classes, though (Bard, PHB 27; Paladin, PHB 42-3; Ranger, PHB 45). The paladin and ranger are pretty specific about their caster levels (very last sentence). I can understand the rogue/bard split there. The bard is a great class, IMO, but it does need a little tweaking (the 6+Int skill pts./level in 3.5e is a good place to start, AFAIC). If I weren't so fond of this character (and his spells), I'd consider starting to multiclass him in rogue.

Best,
tKL

 

[Darklone]

The Archer Bard is the most effective (at least combat wise) Bard I've seen. As noted above, you don't really need any feats for this class, so dumping them all into archery feats works out nicely.

Can't agree here. The most effective combat bard I ever seen was a bbn1/bard mixture. Had nice hitpoints to start with, high strength, nearly as high con, enough dex for a breastplate and used a greataxe with Power Attack, Cleave and so to great effect...