Bards: Is it their personal charm or their charming personality?

[Tom McCafferty]

As an aside. If under a flag of truce a bard was to try and facinate a character being negociated with would this constitute a breach of the truce because it is a magical effect? Alternatively using your Diplomacy skill definately does not break the truce.

 

[Pielorinho]

As an aside. If under a flag of truce a bard was to try and facinate a character being negociated with would this constitute a breach of the truce because it is a magical effect? Alternatively using your Diplomacy skill definately does not break the truce.

Most likely it'd be a breach of the truce, but that'd depend on the truce's conditions; it also would not necessarily be noticeable to observers, as long as the bard's performance were appropriate.

I'm playing a bard, and am finding that I can do the swaying-opinion thing far better than a rogue or an enchanter-sorcerer. Unlike a rogue, I don't need to worry about my dex that much, so I can have a maxed-out charisma. Unlike a rogue, I've got several good spells to rely on in order to increase my persuasive powers (and to counterspell the persuasive powers of other folks). Unlike a sorcerer, I've got maxed-out diplomacy, bluff, and sense motive, meaning that I can beat almost anyone's checks in any of these areas. And unlike either, I've got bardic music abilities to enahance my persuasion.

Now if only our DM would stop throwing undead and constructs at us....

Daniel

 

[Nareau]

As Diplomacy is an opposed roll a low level bard (such as mine) is scuppered by a LE Cleric with Protection from good and a bit of Diplomacy.

This is not correct. There is a table that gives the DC to change the target's attitude. Making a Hostile target change to Unfriendly is DC 20; making him Indifferent is DC 25.

And Piel, I threw nearly a dozen non-undead, non-construct enemies at you guys! You just chose to run away from them, and fight the mummy/golem duo instead.

Spider

 

[Pielorinho]

And Piel, I threw nearly a dozen non-undead, non-construct enemies at you guys! You just chose to run away from them, and fight the mummy/golem duo instead.

See, I told them and told them we should fight! Grrr.

Daniel

 

[Felix]

The reason the Bard was unable to influence the mob was due to the influence of the LE Cleric and overwelming circumstancial evidence.

The influence of the LE cleric should have provided a circumstance penalty to the bard's diplomacy check... it should not have been a flat-out denial of the bard even attempting to roll a diplomacy check. Of course, only the DM knows which it was, because all you know is that the bard failed to do it. This might be because he doesn't have a very good Diplomacy modifier, and that's not the DMs fault.

And that overwhelming circumstancial evidence that you mention would have given the Cleric a rather large circumstance bonus to his Diplomacy check to adjust the mob's attitude, so it looks like the lynched character should have purchased a potion of Expeditious Retreat. Or something.

Even if he's trying to sing to dissuade the crowd, the bard is still trying to alter the mob's attitude, and that still calls for a Diplomacy check; so no dice on the attempted Perform (something) roll to replace a Dip check.

 

[Pielorinho]

As the DM, I would handle the singing thing like this:
Bard: I sing a song to calm the crowd down.
DM: Yeah? Whatcha singing about?
Bard: Um, I sing a song about dopplegangers infiltrating the church and murdering all the priests.
DM: Hm. That doesn't exactly impress the crowd: someone in it yells out how YOU'RE infiltrating their peaceful city and murdering them. That's gonna be a hefty penalty on your diplomacy check.
Bard: Wait! Wait! I sing a song about a famous war started over a simple misunderstand! The song emphasizes the needless bloodshed that resulted from people acting before they knew what happened, and the many grieving families that resulted! It's a terribly sad, quiet song!
DM: Hmm. Okay, I'm feeling nice: forget the doppleganger song. Yeah, that song's enough to get you a bonus on your diplomacy check.

One of my favorite bardic moments involved a situation where, given some downtime, I spent the afternoon at a schmancy cafe singing a song that metaphorically represented the troubles in the city from a viewpoint very favorable to us PCs. When, that night, a wizard used illusions and enchantments to try to persuade a crowd of nobility to kill us, I was able to start singing the song I'd spread earlier in the day, gaining a very hefty bonus on my checks due to the crowd's familiarity with its themes (I'd rolled a critical success on my earlier perform check, IIRC).

That's how bards should work: they should know the best tools to influence people, and they should look for as much synergy as possible between these different tools.

Daniel

 

[kanithardm]

I love bards so as a DM I am VERY lenient when it comes to them. When I play, not DM, I am a bard or a cleric with skills a bard should have.