Levistus's_Leviathan
5e Freelancer
The title gets the point across, but I want to support my viewpoint here (as usual).
But before I do that, I understand that this may be a contentious topic (as are most threads discussing/debates what things "should be like" in D&D), and will kindly ask that posts below remain respectful or constructive. I'm not adding a (+) to the title, because it's perfectly okay for you to post in this thread if you disagree with the premise. However, still treat this thread as a "if I don't have anything constructive to post, don't post at all" thread (which is how most, if not all, threads should be treated, but I wanted to make the reminder). Feel free to disagree (and preferably, if you're going to post that you disagree, explain why), but disagreement doesn't equal disrespect. And, if you don't like Bards in the first place (I'm sure you all know who I'm talking about), maybe realize that this thread may not be for you (this thread isn't to discuss whether or not D&D should have bards, it's to debate how they should be mechanically executed). Now, onto the topic.
Bards have (IMO) always had a weird place in D&D. The main part is that they're one of the 4 Charisma-based caster-classes from the PHB, while Intelligence has 1 (Wizards, but now has Artificers), and Wisdom has 3 (Clerics, Druids, and Rangers). I've addressed a way to solve/reduce this issue (which is an issue, in my opinion and experience, but you may disagree) in a thread about making Sorcerers be Constitution-casters, but this could also be used to give Warlocks a bigger thematic niche as the full caster (or full-caster equivalent) Charisma-based-class. (However, I don't want to make this change just because of this relatively small issue, I'll elaborate more below.) Additionally, the bard's spell list is thematic and great at lower levels (Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Vicious Mockery, Charm Person/Monster, Disguise Self, Gift of Gab, Suggestion, etc), but at higher levels they start to not fit as well (Teleportation Circle? Since when do Bards teleport? Forcecage? Regenerate/Resurrection? Prismatic Spray/Wall??? Foresight? POWER WORD KILL!?!? What the hell do any of these (or many of the others that I didn't mention in order to save space) have to do with being a bard?!?!). It seems like when Wizards of the Coast made the list of spells that bards could get at higher levels, they just kind of blanked and decided "Okay, let's throw in all the Illusion spells, because those are kind of tricksy and bards are tricksy. Oh, also some resurrection/regenerating spells because bards are support, and the only way we know how to emulate support mechanically is through healing/restoration magic. What about after that? Eh, screw it, let's just throw in any Wizard spell that isn't straight-up blasting, and a few others from the Cleric list for good measure." This also feels like the reason why Wizards of the Coast gave Bards Magical Secrets, because they figured "Well, we don't know what spells they should get at higher levels, so we might as well let them steal spells from anyone's spell list, and flavor it as 'Jack of All Trades'". In fact, the only high level (6th level) spell that I think really fits Bards is Otto's Irresistible Dance, and that could just be bumped down one level to a 5th-level spell, which half-casting bards eventually would get access to.
And that's only scratching the surface of the issue. What role do bards fill in the game? They're primarily support characters, but a lot of the time they're not supporting through their spells (their spells are primarily de-buffing in nature), and are instead spamming Bardic Inspiration to help their team-mates. In fact, the bardic niche in 5e is so incohesive, that of the 8 official bard subclasses, 3 of them focus their main/beginning mechanical effects on enhancing their own weapon combat (the Colleges of Valor, Swords, Whispers), two more share practically the same thematic niche but achieved slightly differently (College of Eloquence and College of Glamour), the College of Lore just asks the question of "What if I was even more a Jack of All Trades?", the last two are basically the only mechanically and thematically unique (but also kind of weird) subclasses for the Bards in the game (College of Creation, and College of Spirits. Both of which I'm actually quite fond of, but 2 of the 8 subclasses having actually thematically different and interesting mechanics isn't good, if you ask me). The subclasses are disjointed, the higher level spells are a jumble, and the class can't decide whether it wants to be a part-martial spell-and-slash class, or a primarily buffing/debuffing musician/storyteller. (And there's also the minor theme of a bard that wants to play screamo hard-rock so much that their enemies are all killed by the thunder damage delivered to their ears, which is only supported through the Thunderwave and Shatter spells being on their spell list, even though it actually makes sense for someone that is known for playing musical instruments in a magical manner.)
The theme is . . . disjointed at best (incoherent at worst), even if the mechanics are solid. (Another minor gripe, there's absolutely on reason for Song of Rest to use a different die-size than Bardic Inspiration.)
And my solution for this? Turn the Bard into a primarily support-based half-caster. Give them cantrips (like the Artificer), only give them spells up to level 5 (because the ones beyond that aren't very bard-y), and lean more into focusing off of Bardic Inspiration as a base mechanic (with the various subclasses having different usages of it, like the newer ones do, but built in from the start and having more mechanical diversity). Bardic Inspiration becomes the Half-Caster Bard's equivalent of the Artificer's Infusions. The class still gets to be a Jack of All Trades through the Jack of All Trades and Expertise features, but the get more support as a "Jack of Supporting the Party" class as a base. Furthermore, the subclasses would determine more than they did before, giving the bards automatic known/prepared spell lists that fulfill their thematic niche, as well as mechanical features at more than just 3 levels (seriously, why do bards only get subclass features at 3rd, 6th, and 14th level?!?! Subclasses should do more than that!!!).
There would be 1 subclass for martial combat (the Bardic equivalent of the Battlesmith that gets spells like Compelled Duel, Wrathful Smite, and Staggering Smite), one subclass for charming and deceit (Eloquence that gets charming/social interaction spells), one subclass for distracting enemies with illusions and giving THP to allies through Bardic Inspiration (Glamour, getting illusion and THP spells), a subclass for frightening effects and psychic damage (like the Whispers bard, but without the martial theme, and getting spells like Dissonant Whispers, Geas, and Fear), and a subclass for playing your instrument (or singing) so loudly that people's ears start to bleed (College of Thunder/Sound? Getting spells like Thunderwave, Thunder Step, Thunderclap, Destructive Wave, etc). Then, they could get more "out-there" subclasses like College of Spirits and College of Creation. (And the class would drop countercharm and replace it with something that was actually good, like a Song of Courage that they can activate to sing an aura of charmed/frightened prevention.)
Another (fairly minor) issue that would be solved by this if if the class kept Magical Secrets, they wouldn't get the Paladin's/Ranger's/Artificer's 4th-5th level spells before the classes they're meant for (which can be an issue for balancing new spells for those classes, as they tend to be slightly more powerful than full-caster spells of the same level).
So, what do you think? Should the bard be based more off the Artificer than, say, the Wizard? Any ideas similar to this, or ones that would promote this same general idea? Anyone have any criticisms of this?
But before I do that, I understand that this may be a contentious topic (as are most threads discussing/debates what things "should be like" in D&D), and will kindly ask that posts below remain respectful or constructive. I'm not adding a (+) to the title, because it's perfectly okay for you to post in this thread if you disagree with the premise. However, still treat this thread as a "if I don't have anything constructive to post, don't post at all" thread (which is how most, if not all, threads should be treated, but I wanted to make the reminder). Feel free to disagree (and preferably, if you're going to post that you disagree, explain why), but disagreement doesn't equal disrespect. And, if you don't like Bards in the first place (I'm sure you all know who I'm talking about), maybe realize that this thread may not be for you (this thread isn't to discuss whether or not D&D should have bards, it's to debate how they should be mechanically executed). Now, onto the topic.
Bards have (IMO) always had a weird place in D&D. The main part is that they're one of the 4 Charisma-based caster-classes from the PHB, while Intelligence has 1 (Wizards, but now has Artificers), and Wisdom has 3 (Clerics, Druids, and Rangers). I've addressed a way to solve/reduce this issue (which is an issue, in my opinion and experience, but you may disagree) in a thread about making Sorcerers be Constitution-casters, but this could also be used to give Warlocks a bigger thematic niche as the full caster (or full-caster equivalent) Charisma-based-class. (However, I don't want to make this change just because of this relatively small issue, I'll elaborate more below.) Additionally, the bard's spell list is thematic and great at lower levels (Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Vicious Mockery, Charm Person/Monster, Disguise Self, Gift of Gab, Suggestion, etc), but at higher levels they start to not fit as well (Teleportation Circle? Since when do Bards teleport? Forcecage? Regenerate/Resurrection? Prismatic Spray/Wall??? Foresight? POWER WORD KILL!?!? What the hell do any of these (or many of the others that I didn't mention in order to save space) have to do with being a bard?!?!). It seems like when Wizards of the Coast made the list of spells that bards could get at higher levels, they just kind of blanked and decided "Okay, let's throw in all the Illusion spells, because those are kind of tricksy and bards are tricksy. Oh, also some resurrection/regenerating spells because bards are support, and the only way we know how to emulate support mechanically is through healing/restoration magic. What about after that? Eh, screw it, let's just throw in any Wizard spell that isn't straight-up blasting, and a few others from the Cleric list for good measure." This also feels like the reason why Wizards of the Coast gave Bards Magical Secrets, because they figured "Well, we don't know what spells they should get at higher levels, so we might as well let them steal spells from anyone's spell list, and flavor it as 'Jack of All Trades'". In fact, the only high level (6th level) spell that I think really fits Bards is Otto's Irresistible Dance, and that could just be bumped down one level to a 5th-level spell, which half-casting bards eventually would get access to.
And that's only scratching the surface of the issue. What role do bards fill in the game? They're primarily support characters, but a lot of the time they're not supporting through their spells (their spells are primarily de-buffing in nature), and are instead spamming Bardic Inspiration to help their team-mates. In fact, the bardic niche in 5e is so incohesive, that of the 8 official bard subclasses, 3 of them focus their main/beginning mechanical effects on enhancing their own weapon combat (the Colleges of Valor, Swords, Whispers), two more share practically the same thematic niche but achieved slightly differently (College of Eloquence and College of Glamour), the College of Lore just asks the question of "What if I was even more a Jack of All Trades?", the last two are basically the only mechanically and thematically unique (but also kind of weird) subclasses for the Bards in the game (College of Creation, and College of Spirits. Both of which I'm actually quite fond of, but 2 of the 8 subclasses having actually thematically different and interesting mechanics isn't good, if you ask me). The subclasses are disjointed, the higher level spells are a jumble, and the class can't decide whether it wants to be a part-martial spell-and-slash class, or a primarily buffing/debuffing musician/storyteller. (And there's also the minor theme of a bard that wants to play screamo hard-rock so much that their enemies are all killed by the thunder damage delivered to their ears, which is only supported through the Thunderwave and Shatter spells being on their spell list, even though it actually makes sense for someone that is known for playing musical instruments in a magical manner.)
The theme is . . . disjointed at best (incoherent at worst), even if the mechanics are solid. (Another minor gripe, there's absolutely on reason for Song of Rest to use a different die-size than Bardic Inspiration.)
And my solution for this? Turn the Bard into a primarily support-based half-caster. Give them cantrips (like the Artificer), only give them spells up to level 5 (because the ones beyond that aren't very bard-y), and lean more into focusing off of Bardic Inspiration as a base mechanic (with the various subclasses having different usages of it, like the newer ones do, but built in from the start and having more mechanical diversity). Bardic Inspiration becomes the Half-Caster Bard's equivalent of the Artificer's Infusions. The class still gets to be a Jack of All Trades through the Jack of All Trades and Expertise features, but the get more support as a "Jack of Supporting the Party" class as a base. Furthermore, the subclasses would determine more than they did before, giving the bards automatic known/prepared spell lists that fulfill their thematic niche, as well as mechanical features at more than just 3 levels (seriously, why do bards only get subclass features at 3rd, 6th, and 14th level?!?! Subclasses should do more than that!!!).
There would be 1 subclass for martial combat (the Bardic equivalent of the Battlesmith that gets spells like Compelled Duel, Wrathful Smite, and Staggering Smite), one subclass for charming and deceit (Eloquence that gets charming/social interaction spells), one subclass for distracting enemies with illusions and giving THP to allies through Bardic Inspiration (Glamour, getting illusion and THP spells), a subclass for frightening effects and psychic damage (like the Whispers bard, but without the martial theme, and getting spells like Dissonant Whispers, Geas, and Fear), and a subclass for playing your instrument (or singing) so loudly that people's ears start to bleed (College of Thunder/Sound? Getting spells like Thunderwave, Thunder Step, Thunderclap, Destructive Wave, etc). Then, they could get more "out-there" subclasses like College of Spirits and College of Creation. (And the class would drop countercharm and replace it with something that was actually good, like a Song of Courage that they can activate to sing an aura of charmed/frightened prevention.)
Another (fairly minor) issue that would be solved by this if if the class kept Magical Secrets, they wouldn't get the Paladin's/Ranger's/Artificer's 4th-5th level spells before the classes they're meant for (which can be an issue for balancing new spells for those classes, as they tend to be slightly more powerful than full-caster spells of the same level).
So, what do you think? Should the bard be based more off the Artificer than, say, the Wizard? Any ideas similar to this, or ones that would promote this same general idea? Anyone have any criticisms of this?
