Bards - Why do so few people play them?

[KnowTheToe]

Except, you can sing and do anything except cast spells. So, perhaps the mocking should go in another direction.

OK, OK I stand corrected, a bard cand sing and dance a fight like a weakling. Maybe it is the name bard that I don't like. The only bard I have ever liked was Tom from WoT, otherwise I think of Mimes and Bozo the Clown.

I mean bards are not power players in social circles they are the entertainment. Again, I spit on them.

How is that for another direction

 

[Crothian]

OK, OK I stand corrected, a bard cand sing and dance a fight like a weakling. Maybe it is the name bard that I don't like. The only bard I have ever liked was Tom from WoT, otherwise I think of Mimes and Bozo the Clown.

I mean bards are not power players in social circles they are the entertainment. Again, I spit on them.

How is that for another direction

Well, then if it's coming from a complete misunderstanding of what a Bard is I can understand that. Still, one might refrain from such comments when one is not familar with what a bard is. Bards can be the power players of social events. They can fight as well if not better then a rogue or cleric.

 

[Gizzard]

In practice, the bard ends up serving as a second string cleric.

Well, he actually ends up serving as a second-string everything. The Bard tosses a couple extra Heals on the pile, he throws a Magic Missile, a Daze or a Knock into the mix and he can actually fight from range with a bow if he takes a few well known Feats. All the while singing and doing his regular Bard inspiring stuff.

And all of the above is suitable for a dungeon crawl; Gathering Info or Bardic Knowledge is just a bonus on top of that. One note: this all applies to play where you start with level one characters and work your way up. Other playstyles milage may vary.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

I'll take the middle ground. A lot of dms don't leave space in their game for a bard cause they herd too much. Unfortunately the space that is there can often be filled by a rogue using a few spare skill points. To make bards significant, they need 6 skill points, and rogues need to not have diplomacy, gather info or perform as class skills. Thats the way I do it in my campaigns.

Kahuna Burger

 

[Xilo]

ok I'm starting to see a bit of a trend here. Those that don't like bards and those that do. As far as I can tell the don't are against them cause they are too broad, and not specific enough. If you have a party with a cleric then why bother with a bard right?

but i think in terms of a rp situation a bard can give things that no-one else can. after all dnd isn't just about killing things and dungeons. well not IMC. and i'm quite sure my DM feels the same way.

don't get me wrong I love the big melee machines. my last PC was a 13th lvl fighter with a great axe + 3, but there is a joy in the subtlety of a bard. not to mention the fact that I've had to completly change my playing style.

any way let the bard slinging continue. This is all very interesting.

 

[Tyberious Funk]

The Bard is a bit hard to munchy up. That tends to draw quite a few gamers away from the class.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

I think bards work good in a smaller party because of their deverse abilities. However a bard with well chosen spells and feats can be very combat oriented.

The bard in my campaign took the arcane archer PRC (level 10 Bard/ 5 Arcane Archer) and is very combat oriented, paticuarly when he uses his extra partial action from his haste spell to use the many shot feat in addition to a full attack action w/ rapid shot (granted the Arcane archer levels help his damage and attacks alot). He also is an important backup for the arcane spell caster and since there is no cleric he is the primary healer (lots of wands).

 

[Silver Moon]

Bards

One of the basic problems with the class is that to really do it justice the player needs to have some musical ability of their own. My wife plays a great bard, but she can also play a dozen musical instruments, has a great voice, and can also think of a song on a moment's notice. I have used bards as key NPC's in modules that I DM, but have to spend a considerable amount of time in advance thinking up what they are going to do, say and sing - and even when we get to that point in the module I usually cop-out by handing the text to my wife to sing as the NPC.

 

[Chauzu]

Re: Bards

One of the basic problems with the class is that to really do it justice the player needs to have some musical ability of their own. My wife plays a great bard, but she can also play a dozen musical instruments, has a great voice, and can also think of a song on a moment's notice. I have used bards as key NPC's in modules that I DM, but have to spend a considerable amount of time in advance thinking up what they are going to do, say and sing - and even when we get to that point in the module I usually cop-out by handing the text to my wife to sing as the NPC.

That's one of the reasons why I think bards are so fun to play is because of the music! It adds a lot more fun to the role playing experience. A lot of bards I've seen people play don't do anything except say "I'm singing a song now" or "I'm playing a flute now".

 

[Apok]

but i think in terms of a rp situation a bard can give things that no-one else can. after all dnd isn't just about killing things and dungeons.

There is a flaw in this logic. Unless you consider "roleplaying" to mean rolling social skill checks, then the Bard is no better or worse at roleplaying than any other class. All of the classes are equal when it comes to roleplaying since that is a function of the person playing the character, not the class.

True, D&D isn't just about combat (despite the fact that, according to the rules, combat is the only surefire way to gain xp), but it's the only real standard we have to balance the core classes by. When you talk about "class balance" you are referring mostly to how well such a class can stand up in combat. Yes, obviously non-combat skills will come into play here and the Bard does have the advantage in his selection (if not his points) but overall, I'd say that the Bard falls short of being a class that can contribute equally to a battle. Their Bardic Music abilities are cool (and yes, the Enchiridion of Mystic Music goes a long way towards boosting this aspect) but compared to a Cleric, Bards don't measure up too well in the party-booster scene.

One area where Bards do well is the multiclassing department. A couple of levels in Bard are great when mixed with Ranger, Fighter, Barbarian, or even Rogue.

Crothian mentioned:
"They can fight as well if not better then a rogue or cleric."

This statement is just flat untrue unless you are referring to a multiclassed Bard. Rogues have Sneak Attack which is an awesome advantage in combat (I don't think I need to point out the various "Rogues better than Fighters?!" threads that pop up in Rules from time to time) and Clerics can self-buff themselves to a point where they are at least the equal of, if not better than, a straight-class Fighter. The Bards music ability helps out at lower levels, but is quickly outmatched by the Clerics boosting spells. They do get some nice buff-spells of their own, but Bards suffer the problem of arcane spell failure if they wear armor (which blows, and why they gave Bards arcane spellcasting ability AND armor proficiency without somehow reconciling the two, I have no idea). Clerics don't have this problem.

Basically, you play a Bard because you want to, not because you are going to become the party power-house. It's a pity that they are so underpowered compared to the other classes combat-wise, but there are several cool spells and PrC's available from 3rd party sources to help boost the Bard. Look into them.