D&D 5E Bargaining with the Fates

[pukunui]

Hi all!

I am running the Ancient Greek-themed Odyssey of the Dragonlords campaign.

My players are at a point where their PCs need to seek out the storied Fates, who are actually a coven of hags.

One of the PCs needs to make a magic item as part of their personal “epic path”. The PC can either bargain with the Fates to have them make it for him, or (unbeknownst to him) he can use their magical loom to make it himself.

Two other PCs have lost their memories as a consequence of losing a fight with an androsphinx. I want to be able to offer them the chance of a bargain with the Fates to get their memories back.

However, the example bargains presented in the book are overtly nasty, and I really can’t see any of my players agreeing to them.

I want to be able to present my players with bargains that are difficult and will come with negative consequences but which aren’t so bad that the players will view them as impossible choices. I don’t want anyone saying, “Welp, I’m sorry friend but your PC isn’t getting her memory back because I’m not agreeing to that!”

The options presented in the book are things like killing a friendly NPC ally (and lover of one of the other PCs), kidnapping a baby girl who will be turned into a hag, and kidnapping a nymph who would be eaten by the hags.

Does anyone have any other suggestions for dark bargains that will cause the players some hesitation and result in genuine consequences but which still seem like “fair” deals for either a very powerful magic item (we’re talking a cloak of invisibility here) or the restoration of two PCs’ memories?

If you have any suggestions, I invite you to post them here!

 

[Quartz]

Isn't the usual thing to bargain from a position of power - e.g. you have their eye - or by tricking them?

 

[pukunui]

Isn't the usual thing to bargain from a position of power - e.g. you have their eye - or by tricking them?

The usual thing is to bargain with a hag out of desperation. The hag wants to be the one in the position of power. They'll give the desperate person what they want ... for a price!

The trick is, in my case, to make that price not so great that my players will reject it outright.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

You are running two slightly different slightly different ideas together here. The Graeae of Greek myth, who traditionally have their eye stolen, or are otherwise tricked by the protagonist; and Slavic witches, who usually get the better of the protagonist and lead them to corruption or doom.

You need to decide who you want to get the better of whom in this negotiation. Either give the players some kind of lever they can use, or let your hags offer terms which seem acceptable, but have small print that will doom the party. Or offer both, and see if the players are wise enough to make the right choice.

Don't assume any sort of "mutually beneficial arrangement" can be reached in this kind of negotiation. Either the heroes cheat or they are cheated.

 

[nevin]

Make sure you know your players. I can easily see a party melt down when a good aligned party member finds out you sacrificed a friendly NPC to bring them back. If I were playing a that good character I'd kill the party that was willing to murder innocents to get thier way

 

[nevin]

And just remember the three witches are the Daughters of FATE. The three who spin the threads make the tapestry and cut the threads at thier appropriate time.
Fate's decree's cannot be bargained with or subverted even by Zues.

 

[Shiroiken]

The trick is, in my case, to make that price not so great that my players will reject it outright.

I understand this. We're playing in Avernus, and the DM has various fiends offer us deals. They need to be worth considering to have any value, otherwise there's no point. We took a few and ignored others, but every time but once we were really tempted. It shouldn't be too easy, but also not impossible.

In your case, I'd suggest it be a moral conflict, but not an obvious one. For the return of memories, I'd say they have to accept that 100 strangers would lose a bit of their own memories in order for them to regain theirs (then have them meet one later). Another option is to have ALL memories returned, including pain; the PC would drop to 1 HP and be under the penalty of Raise Dead or Wish (your choice), which is limiting to the party, but still might be worth it. Future promises are also fun, such as their firstborn child or the Law of Surprise from the Witcher.

 

[pukunui]

You are running two slightly different slightly different ideas together here. The Graeae of Greek myth, who traditionally have their eye stolen, or are otherwise tricked by the protagonist; and Slavic witches, who usually get the better of the protagonist and lead them to corruption or doom.

And just remember the three witches are the Daughters of FATE. The three who spin the threads make the tapestry and cut the threads at thier appropriate time.
Fate's decree's cannot be bargained with or subverted even by Zues.

Yeah, it does seem a bit weird that the writers have made the Fates a coven of evil hags who can be bargained with. Like, how do you bargain with fate? Anyway ...

I understand this. We're playing in Avernus, and the DM has various fiends offer us deals. They need to be worth considering to have any value, otherwise there's no point. We took a few and ignored others, but every time but once we were really tempted. It shouldn't be too easy, but also not impossible.

Exactly! Does that book offer any good suggestions? (I've only ever skimmed my copy because it reeks of glue from the binding and I end up with a headache if I try to read more than a page or two at a time.)

In your case, I'd suggest it be a moral conflict, but not an obvious one. For the return of memories, I'd say they have to accept that 100 strangers would lose a bit of their own memories in order for them to regain theirs (then have them meet one later). Another option is to have ALL memories returned, including pain; the PC would drop to 1 HP and be under the penalty of Raise Dead or Wish (your choice), which is limiting to the party, but still might be worth it. Future promises are also fun, such as their firstborn child or the Law of Surprise from the Witcher.

Yes, I was considering doing something like "the cost for you to regain your memories is for someone else to lose theirs!"

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Yeah, it does seem a bit weird that the writers have made the Fates a coven of evil hags who can be bargained with. Like, how do you bargain with fate? Anyway ...

In the original Greek myths the Graeae and the Fates are separate beings, but they are frequently merged in modern retellings.

The "Rule of Three" gets everywhere.

 

[MarkB]

One thing I could think of is the Fates telling of an upset that needs to be righted - one whose chosen fate has been corrupted by powerful and chaotic beings, most likely leading to his death. The PCs are fated to encounter him, and in return for the Fates' help, they must set right his path.

Then have it turn out later that the one whose fate has been upset is the BBEG, and the "powerful and chaotic beings" responsible are the PCs themselves. If they go ahead and try to stop him anyway, their deal with the Fates will be broken, and all the benefits they gained from it will unravel in that moment.