Bartering and apprasial?

[Emerald]

I am DMing my first game. It is a PbP. And I have a bartering question. I was just going to make thing available at the PHB price, but one of my characters wanted to use his apprasial skill to hopefully get a better price. So I use the rules from the PHB on the apprasial skill and gave him a price for each item for 50% to 150%. This is the amount he think the item is worth. But what do I do from here? How do I handle the bartering process? I would assume the merchants know exactly what each item is worth and would never accept a price higher that that in the PHB, but would be willing to cheat the player and offer less, which means that if he had not appraised the item the character would have gotten PHB value for an item, but now that he thinks it is worth less, he will take less, but even if he think the item is worth more, he still won't get more, and therefore is in a worst situation from having appraised the items than if he had not.

How do you handle bartering and the appraise skill?

 

[MerakSpielman]

a clarification (from a player in said game): the character in question is attempting to sell items that have listed prices in the PH, for instance, masterwork weapons. He insisted on appraising them, and under and over valued some items. How does our DM handle the selling process, when the merchant and the PC think the items are worth different amounts?

 

[Tonguez]

BLUFF (or Diplomacy if you are some nambypamby honest merchant who ought to be a Paladin)

A Merchant (in this case the PC) can sell an item for whatever they like - if they want to sell the Masterwork Sword for 5000 gp let them try. However the buyer isn't stupid either (or maybe they are) - if the prices are overinflated then give them a huge bonus to Sense Motive

Batering is all about bluff and counter bluff until everyone is happy

 

[MerakSpielman]

Take the midpoint between what the merchant wants for the item. The merchant will want anywhere from 25% to 75% the standard, full market price to purchase the item (roll d50) while the character, unless they state otherwise, wants the price they appraised the items at.

Make a single opposed Bluff check, with each point in the winner's favor equalling a 5% shift of the price (the full market price) in their direction.


Use this mechanic INSTEAD of the generic "sell back at half-price" mechanic. In other words, the player's asking price would be what he thinks the FULL VALUE of the item is, not the half-price value he might expect to get.

The merchant will never agree to pay more than 90% the market price of the item.

 

[MerakSpielman]

Example: Market price for a masterwork dagger. Say it's 300gp.

The character appraises the dagger at 350gp.

The merchant rolls d50 and ends up with willing to pay 45% of the real market price, or 135gp.

The halfway point between 350 and 135 is 242gp.

They both roll Bluff checks.
Merchant: 20
Player: 15

The merchant won by 5 points. This amounts to 5 5% shifts in price in his favor. The real price is 300, so 5% is 15gp. 15*5 is 75.

242-75=167

The merchant will bargain to 167gp.


addendum to rule: The merchant will never offer less than his original wanting price (determined by the d50 roll), regardless of the different between the bluff scores.

 

[Wormwood]

I use standard Diplomacy rolls (using the NPC Influence Table, DMG p.149). Comes in handy when buying/selling magic items.

Merchant initial state: Indifferent

Hostile: 50% mark up/will attempt to cheat PC (Bluff rolls vs. Sense Motive or Appraise)
Unfriendly: 25% mark up
Indifferent: 10% mark up
Friendly: Market Price
Helpful: 10% discount

Situational modifiers? Tons

 

[Nail]

Example: Market price for a masterwork dagger. Say it's 300gp.

Although realistic enough, this system's got a big problem: with many items it can get tiresome. That, and it sounds better suited for computer help than a paper and pencil game. Since this is PbP......

FWIW, the diplomacy check is probably better, in that it's faster.

 

[MerakSpielman]

Although realistic enough, this system's got a big problem: with many items it can get tiresome. That, and it sounds better suited for computer help than a paper and pencil game....

Good notion. I have rendered my formula into a computerized spreadsheet. If any of you can read a Quattro Pro spreadsheet, email me and I'll email it to you (don't know if Excel can convert from Quattro. It's from Corel Office).

Having a formula in a spreadsheet is actually perfect for PbP, when you can spend as much as a day between responses and nobody bats an eye. Plus, you're already at the computer anyway...

 

[Kilmore]

Local economics is a major factor as well. Trying to buy anything more than an everyday workmanlike weapon in a frontier town is likely to take a lot more money than in a major city, if it could be found at all. True, cities have more money, but they have more competition and a better chance of selling so the merchant can let it go for cheaper.

Other factors include availability (weaponsmith Varrish lived in this town and made many of these daggers for his neighbors to increase his prestige in town; or after the Necromancer was destroyed, the king ordered vast stocks of weaponry melted down to assuage the shortage of metal resulting from the conflict), and the reputation associated with the item (one of Varrish's daggers was used in the assassination of Princess Alestra fifteen years ago and has cast a cloud over these weapons, and those who have them; or the popular rogue and highwayman Fambael uses Boltane's daggers exclusively).

 

[ced1106]

I would assume the merchants know exactly what each item is worth and would never accept a price higher that that in the PHB

With medieval economies being **local** economies, prices will vary. At the least, water is much more valuable in a mountainous area than forest. Likewise, it's entirely possible that one merchange will have cash flow problems and need to sell goods fast, while another can afford to wait.

You have a bunch of ways to start this. Easiest would be to have **one** skill roll to represent the best price they found in town that day. You roll the merchant's skill roll (Appraise, Bluff, or Diplomacy) vs. that of the best player. Start at a base of 100%, and add or subtract 5% of the object's value for every point of difference in skill plus the die roll.

If the players do a good job of roleplaying the event, add the +2 circumstance bonus. Or -2 if it turns out that way.


Cedric.
aka. Washu! ^O^