Base Class i'm building

[Jimlock]

[MENTION=6674931]Jimlock[/MENTION]: This was going to be a class I introduced to my group for anyone to use, myself including, my DM LOVES dex based NPCs to the extent that in the 7 years i've known him i've NEVER seen a strength based NPC and only a few spellcasting ones.

Thats using "evasion" to answer my question... anyway...

As others have mentioned before me, the best way to judge how powerful your class is, you should compare to it to a Rogue.

If I ever had to choose between your class and the Rogue i'd choose yours over the Rogue without a thought. IMO thats to say how overpowered it is.

No matter how much your DM LOVES dex based characters, i'd don't see the point of creating something so unbalanced in respect to some base classes or PrCs.
...If on the other hand your DM is willing to rewrite some of the rules (challenge ratings, classes etc.) so that your class is no longer overpowered... thats another matter..

No matter what i say, its your game and class... but i think that by taking such a big leap, you provoke a chained reaction to your game, that i'm not sure you realize.

 

[Tharkon]

KEEP IN MIND, CORSAIR, that a high movement speed AUTOMATICALLY grants you +4 on Jump checks per 10 feet of speed above 30 feet whenever you get a running start (which really just means whenever you move at least 20 feet before jumping).

About that speed bonus on jumps (I know its untyped but I call it speed for ease of use). I only just discovered its existence and immediately stumbled upon some weird situations.

A character with a speed of 10 ft. gets a -12 penalty on Jump checks with a running start. Say you want to jump up 2 feet (DC 8) with 4 ranks of jump, a racial modifier of +2 and -1 Str penalty, that requires roll of 15.
Now the same character attempts a standing jump instead (DC 16), that's a success on a roll of 11.
So is a standing jump easier in this case?

The Bladedancer as was said earlier is a prestige class from oriental adventures, the reason I used it was also for that thrikreen character mentioned above, he was a very convoluted class and the rules were bent to accomodate him because my DM loved the idea, his BASE land speed was 180 feet a round at level 12. Thrikreen base 40 + 1 level of barbarian (50ft) + 1 level of cleric with the celerity domain(60ft plus it allows access to blade dancer later) + 3 levels of scout (70ft) + 3 levels of Dervish(75ft) + the Quick trait which increases speed by 10 feet at the cost of 1 HP per level for the rest of the character life(85ft) + the Dash feat which gives a +5 to move speed. now this is where it really gets broken, because if taken as written the first level of blade dancer doubles you movement speed, and since my speed has been granted through classes and class abilities not magic, my base speed is technically 90, so doubling that puts it at 180 feet per round. Plus it gets acrobatics +10 and leap of the clouds at level 1.

The Dervish and the Scout both provide enhancement bonuses so the Dervish part can be ignored completely, and the Bladedancer's bonus is well, weird. As written it does not state it doubles anything it states that a creature with a base speed of 20, 30 or 40 ft instead has a base speed of 40, 60 or 80, so technically it would not be wrong to say your speed would not be improved at all. If it did double your speed, then I'd have to say multiplication before addition. Btw, save those 3 levels of Scout and just put on some boots of striding and springing instead. Either way I'd say the result is 125ft. not 180ft. but as long as your DM is ok with it, it's fine.

Wielding 3 scimitars with my stats gave me 6 attacks per round at very small negatives after feats, and with a high tumble a high jump and spring attack this thing was a killing machine, just to see what he could do I put him in an arena in my DMs world, he was able to solo a Bulette, a Drider, a Pyrohydra, a Truly Horrid Umber hulk, and a Satyr, not all at once but in single combat, the scimitars were both Keen and Returning no other bonuses.

Hmm, I though only throwing weapons were able to possess the returning ability, but I reread and see it has to be "a weapon that can be thrown." [italics added] That leaves me to think... what weapon can't be thrown?

For the speed boost, given the rest of his abilities lowering it to 5 feet will do well without diminishing to much what I envisioned him with so I will lower it to 5ft. I don't remember who's fast movement ability I was reading but they don't lose it when wearing light armor and thats who I used I think it was barbarian.

You should base it on the Dervish, this matches most what you have in mind as far as speed goes, IMO.

Although as it was now it was easier to compare to the Rogue than to the Ninja, when you consider the intent of the class and the abilities it will end up (Sudden Strike, Ki Power) with it might be easier to compare it to the Ninja. However when comparing the 3 classes earlier I personally though the Rogue was a bit stronger than the Ninja.

As for Uncanny Dodge and Trap Sense. After some searching I noticed that the Eagle Totem Barbarian (UA, p48) has UD but no TS. He gets Lightning Reflexes at 3rd level instead.
The Lion Totem Barbarian (UA, p49) has TS but no UD or IUD, which are replaced by +2 on Hide checks at 2nd and +2 on damage when charging at 5th level.
Looking at those totem variants might help estimating the value of TS, UD and IUD.
The Wilderness Rogue (UA, p56) has the Hide in Plain Sight ability.

 

[Arkhandus]

Actually, I just misremembered slightly; it doesn't matter if you get a running start or not. Speed higher than 30 feet or lower than 30 feet just gives a general bonus or penalty on Jump checks, even for standing jumps or other uses of the Jump skill. It's a wierd rule, but that's just how it is in the Jump skill description.

And yeah, the Blade Dancer's listed speed is different from a Barbarian's or the like. It doesn't add a bonus to speed, it just changes your speed. Arguably it might stack with anything else, or it might just replace your total speed. In any case it was a 3.0 class with at least a typo or two, and its Fast Movement is a supernatural ability so it would probably be an enhancement bonus. I can't remember if errata was ever put out for OA.

 

[Tharkon]

Considering most other material from OA having been reprinted entirely in the Complete Series my best guess is that they thought the Bladedancer wasn't erratable. I've never been a fan of how the classes in OA worked personally so I can't really judge anyway.

And I'll be sure to remember that speed bonus. Basically as long as you can depend on your speed to remain the same you can write it down on your sheet.
This makes the Halfling's racial jump bonus a bit meager, since it automatically gets a -6 penalty for it's speed.

What if a character would jump off a mount (or any moving platform), would you use the mount's speed bonus or the rider's?

 

[domino]

If the character is jumping, you use the character's speed for determining bonus.

Though you could do a Yoshi thing, make the mount jump with that speed bonus, then jump off the mount using the character's jump check.

 

[TanisFrey]

The base classes from 3.0 OA were tweaked and reprinted in the first four Complete Books. Most of the PRC were never updated for 3.5, they may have done some in Dragon Mag.

 

[Pergentile]

I like how the more work something needs, the more input it gets, but something posted that's flawless gets a couple comments of approval and nothing else. XD

There is only really one thing I want to comment on, and that is the AC bonus. It doesn't mesh with odd modifiers well, and modifiers already dislike odd ability scores. Just give it double dex to AC, and put a maximum of +8 or some such (the same as a full plate). This gives more AC early for your unarmored melee fighter, but keeps it from getting too cheese-able later on.

 

[Dandu]

There are many more ways of telling someone he is wrong than to say that he is right.