Basic/Simple/Good alternative to Pendragon?

[Bill Zebub]

If you wanted to play a really basic game about knights going questing, doing good deeds, and facing moral dilemmas, what system would you use?

I'm looking for something for young (<10 y.o.) players. So less complexity than Pendragon, but more than, say, Hero Kids. There doesn't need to be a lot of character options/differentiation. It's ok if the GM role is complex, as long as players don't need to understand the complexity.

Mouse Guard sort of appeals to me, as the theme is vaguely knight-like. But I don't know the system and it seems to be too complicated for young, first-time gamers.

My plan B will be to use The One Ring rules and invent a knight "culture" for all the players to use.

 

[jdrakeh]

Prince Valiant. It presents the same themes but with a far more simple system. If you can find a copy (apparently it has gone out of print again and is pretty obscure). If you can't find a copy of Prince Valiant, then the recent The Green Knight RPG might be another alternative (I own it, but haven't really looked it over yet, so can't offer much info on it). Mausritter is a good alternative to Mouse Guard. Same themes, actually playable by children.

 

[Fenris-77]

Prince Valiant would indeed be a good option, and I think that once you've digested the rules for Mouseguard it might seem less complex than you think. I found that to be true anyway, about both Burning Wheel and Mouseguard (and Torchbearer for that matter).

 

[Geekrampage]

I came in just reading the title without reading the post to post "Prince Valiant".

It uses a pool of coins as its system. Dice work also.

 

[Teo Twawki]

Osprey Games somewhat recently published Romance of the Perilous Lands; a mashup of the Arthurian and Robin Hood mythologies.

 

[jdrakeh]

Osprey Games somewhat recently published Romance of the Perilous Lands; a mashup of the Arthurian and Robin Hood mythologies.

Oh! Good call! Scott Malthouse (the designer) is also producing supplemental material for it via his Itch page (He's Trollish Delver over there). And for every copy that sells, I believe a knife is twisted into the gut of Varg Vikernes (Varg was insanely outraged that Scott included persons of color in his - that is Scott's - vision of Arthurian Britain).

 

[aramis erak]

Pendragon's really not that complex. Use the point options in 5E, and it's pretty straightforward. The real complexity of it is that the setting and timeline have mechanical effects.

Mouse Guard's no simpler than KAP 1E or 5E sans expansions. (KAP 3E and 4E are the peak complexity to date.) It is, however, reskinnable to arthuriana easily, but not without knowing it well. And it also has the issue of GM phase and Player Phase; if one is familiar with the setting, this can work well. If not... OTOH, my then 10YO had no problems playing MG as MG...

Which would lead me to suggest Fate Core or Fate Accelerated, or even a thin reskin of 2d20 Dune. Or maybe d6 Fantasy.

Starting with Dune... The beliefs system in Dune is simpler than, but just as useful in shaping play as, Pendragon's Traits. The Dune book ties with JCoM for simplest 2d20 flavor. The roles in char gen are fairly medieval already... BG and Mentats can be used as fae and/or druids and/or various other spellcasters,

Fate Core: the book seems intimidating, but it's got way too much white space... It's straightforward. I'd suggest (to get that arthurian feel), one aspect is about the crowns, one is about a personal long term quest, one is about one's training, one is player choice, and one is picked from ones suggested by others.

Fate Accelerated Edition (FAE) is less complex, slightly, as skills go away; the save aspect advice applies.

D6 system is really straightforward - kids will generally lack the gaming experience to balk at rating abilities in dice codes (they aren't usually accustomed to numerical only ratings). D6 Fantasy (now released by Nocturnal Media) has a good list of gear, and (by simply ignoring disads) retains simplicity: 18D across the 6 attributes, then 7D of skills (with most starting at the controlling attribute), and 1D being able to become either 3×+1, or a +2 and +1. this is the same core engine as WEG used for their Star Wars RPG from 1987 to 1997... The book is decently illustrated, plenty of whitespace, decent to good art, and well loved mechanics. Note also: this is the only pure-traditional I'm listing.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Pendragon's really not that complex. Use the point options in 5E, and it's pretty straightforward. The real complexity of it is that the setting and timeline have mechanical effects.

The mechanics aren't complex but there are all those traits to think about. Not a big deal for adult, veteran gamers, but not the experience I want for 8/9/10 year olds.

The reason I have been thinking about adapting The One Ring is because you have 3 attributes that don't change: Strength/Heart/Wits, and two that progress: Valour/Wisdom. That seems like plenty.

Mouse Guard's no simpler than KAP 1E or 5E sans expansions. (KAP 3E and 4E are the peak complexity to date.) It is, however, reskinnable to arthuriana easily, but not without knowing it well. And it also has the issue of GM phase and Player Phase; if one is familiar with the setting, this can work well. If not... OTOH, my then 10YO had no problems playing MG as MG...

I ordered Mouse Guard; should be arriving today.

D6 system is really straightforward - kids will generally lack the gaming experience to balk at rating abilities in dice codes (they aren't usually accustomed to numerical only ratings). D6 Fantasy (now released by Nocturnal Media) has a good list of gear, and (by simply ignoring disads) retains simplicity: 18D across the 6 attributes, then 7D of skills (with most starting at the controlling attribute), and 1D being able to become either 3×+1, or a +2 and +1. this is the same core engine as WEG used for their Star Wars RPG from 1987 to 1997... The book is decently illustrated, plenty of whitespace, decent to good art, and well loved mechanics. Note also: this is the only pure-traditional I'm listing.

d6 is an interesting option. I'll investigate. Thanks.

 

[pemerton]

@Bill Zebub

Another person suggesting Prince Valiant. It's a great system for adults; I reckon it would work with kids too.

I wouldn't recommend The Green Knight for kids. Its reward/feedback structure is based on the players being able to judge the moral implications/parameters of the GM-authored scene, as per the GM's specifications of those. When I ran it for teenagers who had little RPG experience and little familiarity with some of the core tropes, they struggled. (Whereas the adults for whom I GM Prince Valiant did fine.)