Batman as a D&D character

[Wolfwood2]

Fanboyism aside, the fact of the matter is Batman is not that powerful, in and of himself. Stripped of devices and forced to fight only with his hands he's not going to get that far against anybody of a heroic standard (level 10+).

Based on what? Sure he's "human" in the comic books but so is a high level barbarian in D&D. Batman pretty regularly exceeds real world human limits in the comics. He's so stealthy that normal mooks have no chance of seeing him, so accurate that he never misses, never takes more than minor injuries even when hit (high hitpoints), etc.

With enough time to prepare and virtually unlimited wealth, you can do just about anything in D&D, just as in real life.

Just look what happened when Bane got his hands on him.

Bane is an example of prep time on Bane's side. He ran Batman ragged for days by staging a massive supervillain escape. After Batman had gone without sleep for three days and fought numerous battles (In D&D terms being exhausted and low on hitpoints), then and only then did Bane (himself capable of mopping the floor with any number of ordinary people) use a special drug that vastly increased his strength and fight Batman personally.

Every encounter since then Bane has given Bats little trouble.

 

[The Blow Leprechaun]

Based on what? Sure he's "human" in the comic books but so is a high level barbarian in D&D. Batman pretty regularly exceeds real world human limits in the comics. He's so stealthy that normal mooks have no chance of seeing him, so accurate that he never misses, never takes more than minor injuries even when hit (high hitpoints), etc.

You keep making my points: exceeding real world human limits happens in D&D at level 10. Batman at this point, if he's been maxing hide and has 16 base dex, now has at least a +16 to his hide check without even allowing for the copious +dex items he could buy with his limitless wealth. Most of the time, your average goon will already never see him coming. You don't have to be level 20 to achieve this.

The way I look at levels in D&D is this:
Level 10: You're a superhero, if you've been in one town your whole life, you're a legend and even in other towns people in the right circles have probably heard of you.
Level 20: You're a god among men. Everyone, everywhere knows who you are.
Level 30: You're a god, literally.

Look at monsters with the same CR you're proposing for Batman: A black dragon wyrm is gargantuan, has 34d12+238 hit points, 39 AC, and DR 20/magic. This would eat Batman and not even notice him stuck in its teeth.

 

[Mistwell]

Some of you people can't be serious. A portrayal of batman, *the* Batman, of CR/Level less than 15 is simply absurd, considering what he's done.

And I think that's an unhistorical perspective on the character.

Batman has been around as a character since the 1930s. He hasn't always been what you perceive him to be in the last decade or so (where he has had power creep based on the newest hit writer or artist wanting him to be more powerful). For almost his entire career, he's just been a very competent fighter who couldn't actually damage a single eyelash on Superman.

I think less than level 15 is quite realistic for the overwhelming majority of the publication of Batman comics.

 

[Doctor DM]

Look at monsters with the same CR you're proposing for Batman: A black dragon wyrm is gargantuan, has 34d12+238 hit points, 39 AC, and DR 20/magic. This would eat Batman and not even notice him stuck in its teeth.

I think if Batman ever fought a dragon in the comics, he would win. He might need two tries and an elaborate plan, but he could take one.

 

[The Blow Leprechaun]

I think if Batman ever fought a dragon in the comics, he would win. He might need two tries and an elaborate plan, but he could take one.

I'm pretty sure if this dragon came upon Batman while he was walking through the forest on his way to an adventure, he wouldn't reach his destination.

All this stuff about Batman needing to run away and make an elaborate plan is precisely my point about overestimating his abilities. I keep pointing this out, but even a level 1 character with unlimited wealth and time to prepare can take out an encounter probably at least ten levels above it. Just because Batman can do it, does not mean he's its equal in terms of raw ability.

That dragon is certainly smarter than Batman, and has a ton more experience (having lived about 20 times as many lifetimes). Probably nearly as much gold, too. If it puts its mind to killing Batman, could he stop it? I don't think so.

I'm not saying Batman would be a CR 7 or CR 10 encounter, I'm saying his character level is around 7-10. As an encounter, he's definitely much higher than that - but it's because of his wealth, not his abilities.

 

[Klaus]

What if Batman met a dragon:

If Batman were chanced upon by a dragon (and mind you, he'd have ungodly Listen checks to detect the dragon), he'd take full defense and attempt to retreat into a defensible position and assess his enemy. Seeing that the dragon has wings and is heavily scaled, he'd devise a way to negate its flight and a way to hit it that wouldn't require bypassing all that armor. It'd be entirely feasible that Batman would carry quite a few "concrete foam" charges, designed to stiffen on impact and hold in place creatures like Killer Croc, Solomon Grundy or Blockbuster. His body armor and cape are designed to withstand attacks that would be comparable to a red dragon's breath weapon (treat it as Energy Resistance [fire, cold, acid and electricity] 15 at least). He'd find a way to negate any special senses displayed by the creature, including flash grenades to blind it, sonic emitters (thunderstones) to deafen it and pepper spray to negate scent (and possibly cause nausea). He'd keep his distance, since he's not stupid enough to get up close to such a creature and punch it. He'd probably use batarangs to deliver a knockout poison (once again, stuff he uses against foes like Bane, etc). He'd avoid open ground like a plague. He could possibly use a blast charge to drop quite a few trees (or cavern ceilings) on top of the dragon.

Batman as he is now has to be *at least* level 15.

He'd probably need Improved Initiative, Hear the Unseen (PHBII), Alertness, Great Fortitude, Lightning Reflexes, Iron Will, Skill Focus (Intimidate), Investigate (ECS), Educated (ECS), Frightful Presence (d20 Modern), Improved Toughness, Endurance, Diehard, Cloak Dance (XPH), Intimidating Strike (PHBII), Able Learner (RoD)...

The sheer volume of feats he'd need is staggering!

 

[Mistwell]

If Batman came on a Dragon, he would call the rest of the Justice League of America to help out. In particular, he would be calling up Wonder Woman:

I cannot believe how silly this thread has gotten, so quickly

 

[Slaved]

Warblade 3/Crusader 2/Swordsage 2/Ranger 2/Monk 2 (not taken in that order)

He will need a boomerang so he will be a halfling from the talenta plains (eberron). With a sufficient disguise check and a little help from genetics (the tallest of his race!) he will be doing just fine.

He will have an answer for any melee situation, his ranged options will be pretty good as well, he has tracking, gains his wisdom bonus to his armor class in light or no armor (just get the psychoactive skin which gives you something akin to full plate and make it look just like the batman suit, that way he can change in and out of it so rapidly no one will ever know the difference...). With a few well chosen feats and other items his martial art abilities will be very good, evasion allows him to get out of a lot of blasts that would down a normal foe, and he can look good doing it 24/7.

This also explains why he can go through fights practically unscathed and anyone under his charge is tough to hurt or kill (healing and blocking from the crusader, he also has that cape that counts as a shield so he can use the shield block without having an actual shield in hand).

No, he is not quite epic, but there are certainly tales about him and his incredible skills. Seemingly he is the best at everything he does, or will be as soon as he spends a little time thinking over his options and switching his abilities around to suit the current situation....

 

[The Blow Leprechaun]

What if Batman met a dragon:

If Batman were chanced upon by a dragon (and mind you, he'd have ungodly Listen checks to detect the dragon), he'd take full defense and attempt to retreat into a defensible position and assess his enemy. Seeing that the dragon has wings and is heavily scaled, he'd devise a way to negate its flight and a way to hit it that wouldn't require bypassing all that armor. It'd be entirely feasible that Batman would carry quite a few "concrete foam" charges, designed to stiffen on impact and hold in place creatures like Killer Croc, Solomon Grundy or Blockbuster. His body armor and cape are designed to withstand attacks that would be comparable to a red dragon's breath weapon (treat it as Energy Resistance [fire, cold, acid and electricity] 15 at least). He'd find a way to negate any special senses displayed by the creature, including flash grenades to blind it, sonic emitters (thunderstones) to deafen it and pepper spray to negate scent (and possibly cause nausea). He'd keep his distance, since he's not stupid enough to get up close to such a creature and punch it. He'd probably use batarangs to deliver a knockout poison (once again, stuff he uses against foes like Bane, etc). He'd avoid open ground like a plague. He could possibly use a blast charge to drop quite a few trees (or cavern ceilings) on top of the dragon.

Batman as he is now has to be *at least* level 15.

He'd probably need Improved Initiative, Hear the Unseen (PHBII), Alertness, Great Fortitude, Lightning Reflexes, Iron Will, Skill Focus (Intimidate), Investigate (ECS), Educated (ECS), Frightful Presence (d20 Modern), Improved Toughness, Endurance, Diehard, Cloak Dance (XPH), Intimidating Strike (PHBII), Able Learner (RoD)...

The sheer volume of feats he'd need is staggering!

Again, pretty much what you have here is him having a bunch of items that solve his problems... And then a list of feats to justify him being a higher level. I could take issue with the feats, one by one, but it really isn't worth going down that road.

I don't think we're ever going to agree on this. I think Batman (on his own) sucks and that Batman + wealth + devices is more handful than most people want. I'm separating the character from his resources, and you don't want to. It's two different approaches to interpreting a character into D&D. I think we also disagree on the relative gradients of power a character possesses at various levels, but I doubt we'll ever see eye to eye on that, either.

 

[Ravynsland]

I'm actually making a campaign right now that's going to be a thinly-veiled analogy to the Bat-mythos.

Batman (AKA the wealthy noble Jal Dorrik) is gonna be a monk3/(urban)ranger7/Shadowy Avenger10 in his 20-level plan. The plan keeps his BAB high and gives him great skills, Ascetic Stalker will give him solid unarmed progression, and Shadowy Avenger (MGP's Quintessential Rogue) could not be more hand-tailored to Batman, complete with alchemy skills, interrogator abilities, and stuff like "Angel of Justice".

Joker (AKA The Mortician) will be a scarred elf sorcerer who mass-murders for the lulz, using grafting to make frankenmooks and scavenging from his victims. He'll even specialize in crowd control and insta-death spells to really enrage the party (especially when he escapes every time).

Commissioner Gordon I'm going to blend with Dragon Age's Zhevran for the lulz, I'll call him Zar'tan and make him a fighter/swashbuckler (Captain of the Guard).

It's gonna be SWEET.