Battelstar Galactica in Sweden, worth watching?

[buzzard]

First off, the link doesn't work.

I did, however, go to his site and track down the critique, so I have read it, and I don't see the "more to it" that you think is there. His argument that "the humans do stupid things" basically boils down to "they didn't follow good military contracting and testing practices", which is, as I said before, a nitpicky and trivial argument.

Actually he gave one example and then explained how it was just indicative. Here's the later paragraph from the article:

"Every single problem _I_ have has to do with similar deus ex machina
designed to limit the humans. Either the writers can't think things through or they're unwilling to go to the trouble (and it's a pain, trust me) of coming up with another idea when their first, lame-brain, one doesn't work logically. I do, even in my crappiest writing. Are they getting paid too much or what???"

He did not spend a whole lot of time writing up examples in his article. He gave one example, and then said it was indicative. I agree with him. You'll have to excuse my interest in watching any of it again to give examples. Bad TV gets purged from memory pretty quickly (thankfully).

And if he didn't make it trhough the DVDs, he's not in much of a position to critique the show. And if you didn't, neither are you.

Ahh yes, the classic "If you didn't watch every episode, you aren't qualified to judge" rubbish. Sorry, I watched enough episodes to form an opinion. It wasn't positive. I do not have to slog through a bunch of stuff I find painful to be able to claim it was painful.

I'm glad you like the show, but don't try to sell me some rubbish that I can't form an opinion before I see everything. That's nonsense. I suppose it is possible that like Babylon 5, there was a point of massive turnaround and it became good. I doubt it.

As for whether or not Ringo watched all of them or not. it is my assumption that maybe he didn't. Maybe he did. I imagine that depends on his pain threshold.

buzzard

 

[Mallus]

You won't ever find me defending TOS either. I didn't care for that series at all. Even TNG, which I prefer, was pretty moronic for sending bridge officers out like canaries in a coal mine.

buzzard

Call it a kind of “necessary stupidity”, when the demands of the form (action-packed tv melodrama) take precedence over the attempt to accurately and realistically portray the subject matter.

In the case of TOS, there was the need, or a least a perceived need, for the characters making the command decisions the same ones that are directly involved in carrying them out, in the thick of the action themselves. It heightens the drama and the “level of excitement”, admittedly at the expense of logic.

Do you suppose an SF show about ensigns methodically following the orders of their superiors would have been successful, when a large part of the audience wants strong lead characters with which to identify. Characters that almost by definition have to be giving the orders.

This is inherent in all tv drama, maybe in all drama period. The desire for a dramatic story vs. the desire for mimesis. Do you want to know how a hospital really works or do you want Grey’s Anatomy? And you have to choose, because it’s virtually impossible to do both at the same time.

Getting back to BSG, the funny thing is I agree with a lot of Ringo’s points (Apollo should die…) yet I love the show. It’s the best thing since sliced bread. Or Farscape. BGS does gets plenty illogical in order to heighten the drama, but since I see this as something inherent in the form, I can overlook it. Besides, I think BSG is interesting because it’s more concerned with asking the question “should humans triumph?” than the nuts-and-bolts of “how humans triumph”. If you’re only in it for the latter, I can see how it would be mightily frustrating.

 

[wingsandsword]

Part of the appeal of Battlestar Galactica is that the characters aren't perfect people, they might not follow manual-perfect contracting procedures all the time. They aren't recruiting poster stereotypes, they are a lot more fleshed out as rounded characters than the typical TV heroes. They make mistakes, they've got their failings. Dr. Cottle is a decent doctor, but he smokes and doesn't really care about what it's doing to him. Adama is a good leader, but he's sometimes overemotional and has problems with being countermanded. Lt. Thrace has serious anger and authority issues who would have been court martialed years before if Adama didn't keep covering for her, but is a crack shot and ace pilot. Dr. Baltar is one of the brightest minds of his generation, but has an ego the size of a supergiant and a libido to match. Yes, they don't always follow letter-perfect procedure, but that's what real people would do in those circumstances. With characters like Specialist Cally and Chief Tyrol they've had probably the best depiction of enlisted personell I've ever seen on TV science fiction.

You don't get the heroic mythic figures of Babylon 5 making epic speeches at the drop of a hat and you don't have the perfect happy people of Trek always getting along and ending up happily ever after at the end of just about every episode.

Oddly enough, from the acting and the way the characters act, I find Battlestar Galactica one of the more realistic shows on TV. The characters act like how I'd expect real people to act under such circumstances, their motives are sometimes unclear, even to themselves, they let their emotions get the better of them at times, loyalties are mixed and clouded, and their actions are sometimes contradictory.

(New) Battlestar Galactica is more of a drama series with a military/apocalypic theme that happens to use a Sci-Fi setting, than a "Sci Fi" show.

 

[Storm Raven]

He did not spend a whole lot of time writing up examples in his article. He gave one example, and then said it was indicative. I agree with him. You'll have to excuse my interest in watching any of it again to give examples. Bad TV gets purged from memory pretty quickly (thankfully).

The problem is, his "example" consists of such a trivial issue that one would think that if he had a more substantial criticism to make, he would have used that instead. Seriously, if the worst you can say about a show is that the characters don't procure their military equipment properly, then you are nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking.

Ahh yes, the classic "If you didn't watch every episode, you aren't qualified to judge" rubbish. Sorry, I watched enough episodes to form an opinion. It wasn't positive. I do not have to slog through a bunch of stuff I find painful to be able to claim it was painful.

No, you are not able to judge the quality of the show. You are able to judge the quality of the episodes you actually watched, and nothing more. Anything else you might offer as an opinion is entirely baseless, and deserves to be ignored.

 

[buzzard]

The problem is, his "example" consists of such a trivial issue that one would think that if he had a more substantial criticism to make, he would have used that instead. Seriously, if the worst you can say about a show is that the characters don't procure their military equipment properly, then you are nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking.

In a case where procurement of the item is a life or death issue for the species you'd think they might go to the trouble of doing it right maybe?

No, you are not able to judge the quality of the show. You are able to judge the quality of the episodes you actually watched, and nothing more. Anything else you might offer as an opinion is entirely baseless, and deserves to be ignored.

Right. You watch every episode of every TV show before you decide to stop watching it. Right. Do you have a bridge to sell me as well?

People can't form an opinion from 4-5 hours of a series. Right. Boy, you really have too much time on your hands.

buzzard

 

[Lockridge]

Buzzard,
I completely disagree with your opinion of the show but I would fight to the death for your right to express it.
Well, not to the death maybe - perhaps a thumb wrestle...with a small child or my grandma. Actually, grandma's pretty tough with her cane...
(running away)

 

[Storm Raven]

In a case where procurement of the item is a life or death issue for the species you'd think they might go to the trouble of doing it right maybe?

Maybe, but that would assume that people do the smart thing. Esepcially people running a jury rigged government staffed by inexperienced individuals dealing with an understaffed and underequipped military while led by someone with terminal cancer who may or may not be having divinely inspired visions. Harping on the fact that they didn't follow good contracting practices seems to me to be a trivial issue under those circumstances.

Right. You watch every episode of every TV show before you decide to stop watching it. Right. Do you have a bridge to sell me as well?

No, I don't. But I don't offer an opinion concerning the quality of the entire show, just the portion I actually watched. I'm not a Buffy fan, but I only watched a handful of episodes. I know I didn't like the episodes I watched, and found them to be weak, but that doesn't mean I have any ability to form an opinion on the rest of the episodes.

Just as you have no ability to form an opinion concerning portions of Battlestar Galactica that you didn't actually watch.

 

[buzzard]

Maybe, but that would assume that people do the smart thing. Esepcially people running a jury rigged government staffed by inexperienced individuals dealing with an understaffed and underequipped military while led by someone with terminal cancer who may or may not be having divinely inspired visions. Harping on the fact that they didn't follow good contracting practices seems to me to be a trivial issue under those circumstances.

I should think the utmost care would be taken. They didn't. It seems like a fair gripe to me.

No, I don't. But I don't offer an opinion concerning the quality of the entire show, just the portion I actually watched. I'm not a Buffy fan, but I only watched a handful of episodes. I know I didn't like the episodes I watched, and found them to be weak, but that doesn't mean I have any ability to form an opinion on the rest of the episodes.

Just as you have no ability to form an opinion concerning portions of Battlestar Galactica that you didn't actually watch.

That is obvious enough. I can't say what I didn't watch was good. However, based on what I did see, I can assume I won't like the rest of it. I am also qualified to criticize the flaws in writing and tone I did see. If, for some reason, these did not carry over to other episodes, then it's my loss. However I suspect they did not.

I don't like Indian food. The mixture of spices just doesn't do it for my palate. I have eaten at plenty of places which fans of Indian food tell me are simply great. I didn't like them. If someone, therefore, tried to tell me that I am not qualified to dislike Indian food because I didn't try every dish in every restaurant, I'd say they were full of it.

buzzard

 

[Storm Raven]

I should think the utmost care would be taken. They didn't. It seems like a fair gripe to me.

I think the fact that they were distracted by the constant running for their life, trying to construct some sort of workable government/command system from almost nothing, and the fact that the creation of a cylon detector was not regarded as a high priority by some of the more powerful people in the fleet (who didn't really believe in humaniform cylons to begin with) more than explains the lack of care.

That is obvious enough. I can't say what I didn't watch was good. However, based on what I did see, I can assume I won't like the rest of it. I am also qualified to criticize the flaws in writing and tone I did see. If, for some reason, these did not carry over to other episodes, then it's my loss. However I suspect they did not.

Let's make a comparison. You implied earlier that you had watched 4-5 hours of BSG, and that was enough to make an assessment. You also said you liked Babylon 5. If you had watched 4-5 hours of that show, that would mean that you had watched The Gathering, Midnight on the Firing Line, Soul Hunter, and Born to the Purple. Do you truly think you could have formed a worthwhile opinion on the series after that much exposure to it?

 

[Simplicity]

It's silly to say that someone cannot form a valid opinion of a series without watching all of the episodes. Okay, so two people don't like BSG. I can live with that. People sometimes have different opinions. Especially CYLONS. I'm talking to you, BUZZARD!!!