Battlefront 2021:The war for America; general thoughts

[Urizen]

I've been thinking ( always a bad thing *grabs aspirin*) about what existing military technology might look like in 2021, and I've decided that there will be an appendix in the first book which provides a non-sci-fi version of the War for America.

It will examine various types of advanced weaponry and mechanized units and provide new versions of tanks, rifles, grenades (maybe even mini-battlefield nukes?? ) and other crunchy weapons of war goodness for those of you who might not want to go the science fiction route.

I'm also looking into the possibility of getting some solid Mass-combat rules for these types of weaponry written for the first book.

Any thoughts on the subject or comments about what you might like to see?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I've been thinking ( always a bad thing *grabs aspirin*) about what existing military technology might look like in 2021, and I've decided that there will be an appendix in the first book which provides a non-sci-fi version of the War for America.

It will examine various types of advanced weaponry and mechanized units and provide new versions of tanks, rifles, grenades (maybe even mini-battlefield nukes?? ) and other crunchy weapons of war goodness for those of you who might not want to go the science fiction route.

I'm also looking into the possibility of getting some solid Mass-combat rules for these types of weaponry written for the first book.

Any thoughts on the subject or comments about what you might like to see?

Okay, I am not an expert on military and weapons, but a few thoughts:

LASERs: Don't expect them to be any kind of standard weapon system. But I can see their application in anti-missile defense systems. 2021 is not that far away, and if there is a Civil War going on, I can't see them being vastly employed.

Nukes: Smaller Tactical Nukes might be possible, but keep in mind that the nuclear material isn't exactly common, and limited oil support might mean more nuclear material is going to be used for energy production. I think that hand-held nuclear weapons will not be common. The side effects of radiation last to long to be used in anything beside an all-out scenario (we want to destroy a bunker and have no interest in capture)

Drones: I can see a lot more of them in the future. They will probably augment common military units. They are used today already, and there are even drones out there that can use weapons. I think exploration/surveillance and bomb disarming drones will be pretty standard. Combat Drones can provide fire support and might even be the foundation of many military engagements. (probably multiple of them will be supervised by a soldier relaying order and adapting mission parameters)

Tanks: Sleeker designers, more flexible and harder to detect by RADAR or Infrared will probably become more common.

Power Armors: Don't really see that coming. It would probably be more feasible to build a remote-operated robot

Hand Held Weapons: The OICW and successor weapons will probably be a weapon at least as widespread as a machine gun. (But I don't see them replacing the Machine Gun, or even the assault rifle).

Technical Equipment: Electronical aids all over the place. Tiny things that can make your life easy - but your backpack and armor probably a lot heavier!

 

[Raptor]

Wait, Communism is bad?

Canada becoming communist is a negative thing?

Since I really can't get into a discussion about Communism, the political science theory, and how it differs from the atrocities and oppression undertaken in the name of Communism, I can't reasonably argue just how ill-informed it is to state that portraying Canada as a Communist nation is the same as portraying it negatively.

As a Canadian who deals regularly with Americans, I endure a lot of false assumptions and stereotypes about my country and nationality. However, to read a piece of fiction that speculates a Canada in a different political state (be it negative or positive) gives me no more pause than reading how depraved a group of survivors could be in a hypothetical post-apocalyptic scenario. Truly, if the concept of a Communist Canada offends you, then I shudder to think what you might do if you were to pick up some of the Rifts World Books detailing the state of Free Quebec and the Canadian wilds.

With that out of the way, Urizen, I like where this setting is going and I hope to hear more... especially if mechs might be involved somewhere down the line.

I deal with the US on a continous basis as well and because we have a social net a lot of them lump us in the category of China, which is where I tend to get offended. I am tired of the inaccuracies Role Playing Games portray of Canada and Canadians. So whats the big deal? Just because I decided not to get the product it does not mean its going to be a bad product. It is my right as a consumer not to buy what I don't want to based on whatever reason. If I disagree with something that is my right, I was just giving Urizen some feedback. He is ok with it and I am ok with him doing whatever to his product.

And yes I have seen RIFTS Canada and seeing how it is not a game and a system I am not into I exercise my consumers privilege and did not buy it.

On what basis are you making the assumption that Canadians are being portrayed in a negative light?

Besides, if, as an American, I boycotted every modern or futuristic (or Western) game in which the US and its citizens are portrayed in a negative way, the list of games I'd have available to me would be pretty durn short...

I have a wide selection of games and maybe its what I have but I have never seen the US portrayed badly.

Thanks for sharing, Roudi,

Honestly, I am not sure Communist Canada fits the bill for this alternate setting yet. Sure I could see it happening. I mean, the province of Saskatchewan already leans towards socialism in it's current political structure. I don't see why those ideas theoretically couldn't spread, but that's neither here nor there.

It might be much more interesting to see an isolationist canada building walls along the southern border to keep the war from spilling over into its provinces in the face of illegal immigrations by americans seeking to get out of the country. Or maybe canada has to defend itself against aggression from americans in the northern states who cross the border looking for food or fuel, etc...

There's room for alot of good fun gaming there.

Most of the country, even the right wing parties are a little more left leaning then traditional US politics. Its just the Canadian way seeing how we follow the Brits in the way they run their government.

Urizen a lot of people will be happy with your product, I just see Canada as a Marxist Leninist state to be not appealing. There are those who would see Canada under more control of the monarchy in the same way. Some of us won't buy products because it has racist or sexual content, some of us will. For me political and military inaccuracies are a push button issue, hence my reluctance. We all have something that will push our buttons, its just the way we are.

 

[Raptor]

I've been thinking ( always a bad thing *grabs aspirin*) about what existing military technology might look like in 2021, and I've decided that there will be an appendix in the first book which provides a non-sci-fi version of the War for America.

It will examine various types of advanced weaponry and mechanized units and provide new versions of tanks, rifles, grenades (maybe even mini-battlefield nukes?? ) and other crunchy weapons of war goodness for those of you who might not want to go the science fiction route.

I'm also looking into the possibility of getting some solid Mass-combat rules for these types of weaponry written for the first book.

Any thoughts on the subject or comments about what you might like to see?

How will you be addressing spacecraft and war in space? Underwater etc?

 

[Roudi]

Raptor, I have started a new thread to discuss the issue of Canada in gaming, so we can avoid crapping in Urizen's thread.

The rest of you, carry on.

 

[Raptor]

I am not sure what your problem is Roudi, I gave an opinion, Urizen was understanding in that my opinion and the matter is settled between us.

 

[jdrakeh]

I have a wide selection of games and maybe its what I have but I have never seen the US portrayed badly.

You're kidding, right? In the same post you say that you are familiar with Rifts and haven't seen the US portrayed negatively in a roleplaying game? These two statements are directly at odds with one another (in Rifts, the US was a failed government usurped by the world's largest force of militarized bigots). And then, of course, you gave games like Conspiracy X, Shadowrun, Abberrant, etc. . . all of which paint various US government agencies as villainous organizations.

 

[Urizen]

Okay, I am not an expert on military and weapons, but a few thoughts:

LASERs: Don't expect them to be any kind of standard weapon system. But I can see their application in anti-missile defense systems. 2021 is not that far away, and if there is a Civil War going on, I can't see them being vastly employed.

Laser missile defense systems are a great idea. It also makes me wonder if the Star Wars defense system would have been implimented by the time 2021 rolls around (much to the Chagrin of the Soviet Union).

Nukes: Smaller Tactical Nukes might be possible, but keep in mind that the nuclear material isn't exactly common, and limited oil support might mean more nuclear material is going to be used for energy production. I think that hand-held nuclear weapons will not be common. The side effects of radiation last to long to be used in anything beside an all-out scenario (we want to destroy a bunker and have no interest in capture).

Good advice. Maybe I was just too inspired by Starship Troopers

Drones: I can see a lot more of them in the future. They will probably augment common military units. They are used today already, and there are even drones out there that can use weapons. I think exploration/surveillance and bomb disarming drones will be pretty standard. Combat Drones can provide fire support and might even be the foundation of many military engagements. (probably multiple of them will be supervised by a soldier relaying order and adapting mission parameters).

Mmmm. Drones. There's going to be at least one robot drone in this product already, but I agree, even in a non-sci-fi version un-manned drones are definitely something we'd see more of.

Tanks: Sleeker designers, more flexible and harder to detect by RADAR or Infrared will probably become more common. [/guote]

Stealth tanks. Yup. I can see that. I think there are already projects dealing with stealth fighters and Stealth warships, so this shouldn't be too much of a stretch. I think adding rockets or even small (mini) missiles systems to tanks might make them more flexible. Upgradeing the sensor suites and adding more potent ECM systems would also be important considerations.

Power Armors: Don't really see that coming. It would probably be more feasible to build a remote-operated robot.

This is interesting. I tend to see power armor as more "sci-fi" than not. Now that said, I recently read about a prosthetic arm which intreprets brain signals and "moves" accordingly. This could be the beginning of cybernetics. As far as power armor, it_might_ also be a jumping off point for development of body suits which react in similar ways. Combined with hydraulics, you might see very _basic_ powered body suits which provide additional strength or leaping capabilities.

Hand Held Weapons: The OICW and successor weapons will probably be a weapon at least as widespread as a machine gun. (But I don't see them replacing the Machine Gun, or even the assault rifle).

Actually, I think the OICW has recently been shelved and integrated into a new Future Force soldier program. I'll do soem research on that and see if I can extrapolate some theories.

Technical Equipment: Electronical aids all over the place. Tiny things that can make your life easy - but your backpack and armor probably a lot heavier!

Definately. Maybe even stimpaks Ala Shadowrun.. hmm..

Thanks for the advice!

 

[Urizen]

How will you be addressing spacecraft and war in space? Underwater etc?

Honestly I haven't given much thought to what those arenas might look like in 2021.

Space could be interesting, especially if the space race never slowed between the USSR and United States. I guess it could be plausible that, insatead of an international space station, there are mutliple stations up there controlled by the USSR, U.S and possibly even china and the U.K

As for underwater combat, I'm not sure, maybe smaller submarines, underwater military installations? hmmm..

Any suggestionms would be appreciated.

 

[Urizen]

You're kidding, right? In the same post you say that you are familiar with Rifts and haven't seen the US portrayed negatively in a roleplaying game? These two statements are directly at odds with one another (in Rifts, the US was a failed government usurped by the world's largest force of militarized bigots). And then, of course, you gave games like Conspiracy X, Shadowrun, Abberrant, etc. . . all of which paint various US government agencies as villainous organizations.

I'm not exactly saying many good things about the US in this campaign model either