D&D 5E Battlemap Vs. Theater of the Mind

[Grainger]

Uhhhhh what?

I wouldn't.

Actually that's not true. If the PCs wanted to pull off some sort of caper or plan in the throne room while talking to the Prince I might.

"If my players were interested enough to take an hour to talk to the Prince..."

...in the context of using battle mats. I think the discussion was starting to muddy combat and non-combat encounters.

Of course, a non-combat situation can evolve into a combat-based one (or a stealth one, or similar). I was just trying to get an idea of whether some groups use grids for every encounter in case it breaks out into a fight.

 

[Shasarak]

Why would you use a battle mat for a non-combat encounter?

The Prince does have a lot of loot so the combat option is always open.

 

[The Human Target]

"If my players were interested enough to take an hour to talk to the Prince..."

...in the context of using battle mats. I think the discussion was starting to muddy combat and non-combat encounters.

Of course, a non-combat situation can evolve into a combat-based one (or a stealth one, or similar). I was just trying to get an idea of whether some groups use grids for every encounter in case it breaks out into a fight.

Alrighty then.

Actually using a map for an encounter you don't intend to involve combat is a psychological tool for a DM, as is not whipping out a map for a scene you know is going to devolve into a fight until after initiative is rolled.

 

[The Human Target]

The Prince does have a lot of loot so the combat option is alwdays open.

Also it can have a roleplaying effect. PCs might be less prone to being lippy to Prince Albert if they can see the minis for 10 guardsmen and the royal mage on the table.

 

[Shasarak]

Also it can gave a roleplaying effect. PCs might be less prone to being lippy to Prince Albert if they can see the minis for 10 guardsmen and the royal mage on the table.

lol, but then they also know that a well positioned fireball can take all the Guardsmen and the mage out at once in the surprise round - so the Prince is still not safe yet!

 

[Ricochet]

lol, but then they also know that a well positioned fireball can take all the Guardsmen and the mage out at once in the surprise round - so the Prince is still not safe yet!

Ohhh I do despise the "maximize the people inside my spell's radius" aspect of battlemaps too. Lots of counting and finagling, and I get that a wizard is very intelligent, but that doesn't give him an isometric view of a room like that.

Poor prince though hehe..

 

[The Human Target]

lol, but then they also know that a well positioned fireball can take all the Guardsmen and the mage out at once in the surprise round - so the Prince is still not safe yet!

Hey I'm fine with that too.

Clarity is the strength of mapping after all.

 

[Umbran]

Oh I agree completely. On the point of this topic though, I will say that such players tend to take even longer when using a battle map versus TotM. Perhaps many TotM DM's are better at cutting through their need for control, or perhaps they simply cannot align all their options without the visual aid to allow maximizing. I don't know really, and I might be way off. Again, this is just what I've experienced myself at tables.

Interesting debate though, and I will definitely ask some of my uhmmm "hesitant" friends about the how's and why's of their gaming when next I see them! I might provide an update if I can get some answers.

I think the "need for control" may generally not be the issue. It is more a need for understanding that the choice you're making is a good one, or isn't "wrong".

There's a known psychological phenomenon called "analysis paralysis" - the more options you have to choose from, the smaller the differences between those options become, and the harder it can be to tell which is better. The battle map makes all options visible, down to the 5' square. What it doesn't make clear is that most of these options are bad, or that many of them are equivalent, or so close as makes no difference. The extra information does not help make the decision - it just moves the decision down to finer distinctions.

Theater of the Mind cuts through some of this - it takes the player back up closer to the generally effective ideas instead of minutiae of positioning that don't impact results.

 

[houser2112]

What player, whose PC has access to fireball, DOESN'T try to maximize targets in the AoE? Minis or TotM, I'm going to try that. Whether the combat state is maintained on the table, or in the DM's head, I'm going to (try to) get that information. If it's on the table, I can do that when it's not my turn much easier. If it's in the DM's head, I have to ask him how many I can get without affecting my friends, how many I can get with affecting my friends. This is why I think TotM is inferior for all but the most trivial of combat encounters, regardless of the level of player/DM trust.

 

[iserith]

Why would you use a battle mat for a non-combat encounter?

I've used them for scenes that were chiefly exploration or social interaction as well. In one game, I mapped out an entire noble's house (three stories) and filled it with minis (the guests). The goal the players had set for their characters was to mingle among the guests to curry favor with influential people there so as to see a controversial law up for a vote quashed. If they could get X number of people on their side before the end of the party, then they succeeded in their goal. If they failed, then the law would go into effect and it would effectively force them into becoming outlaws.

Part of the challenge was making the spatial positioning in the party favorable because I established that if a Hostile guest was around any Indifferent guests, then anytime a check was called for to influence the Indifferent guest, it would be made at disadvantage. So the players had to be clever in creating pretext, distractions, and whatnot to tip the scales in their favor. There were other challenges as well and some exploration for the PCs to do in order to dig up dirt on the noble who was leading the effort against them and for this a map was clutch.

It was a fantastic scene that lasted the entire session. The map really helped keep track of all the action that was going on, especially since the party was often split up and it was visually engaging.