Battletech

[Douane]

I do want to note that so far, nothing I have said has been IC for Tarnish. I still haven't worked out how he is IC. The notions of Honour and Disciplin are attractive ones, but there is an element of intolerance and fanaticism that is a little disconcerting. To me. How Tarnish feels I am not sure. Perhaps he will not be sure either. Or perhaps he doesn't see it. The IC exchanges are very useful.

Well, you've the nail on the head here. This is not just an element, but the underlying basis of everything Clan. Due to their peculiar origins and society structure this permeates everything, but comes into full bloom within the Warrior caste. Nicholas Kerensky violently slashed any connections to the "old" way of living when he established the Clans, a form of society he deemed better and "higher" than anything else. He abolished almost all former ties to create what is essentially a warrior brotherhood with "some" support elements.

The strict caste structure does elevate the warriors above all others and the continual reminder that they were driven out of the IS and then out of the Pentagon worlds (and their subsequent re-conquest) reinforces the intolerance for everything non-Clan.

The Trials (as the highest body of laws among the Clans) also serve two-fold purposes: They were aimed at having descisions influenced not by political powergames (ie. what drove them from the Inner Sphere), but only by pure fighting prowess, the mark of the true warrior. The Clan honor system should have ensured that these ways are neither diluted or misused, but are clearly not always successful. The society as a whole, though, still holds them to these ideals and punishments for miscreants are swift and devoid of mercy.
Secondly, the trials also enforce the continued and (mostly) undamaged existence of this society. The Merchants/Techs/Laborers dislike their role in this structure? Bad luck for them. They cannot challenge anyone of the Warrior caste (or it as whole) to any trials, and even if they could, they have no training at all (exept for the existence of a few down-tested warriors) and other options in this vein like a violent uprising are out, because they have no weapons. Also they hold no political sway and nothing, in fact they have no say at all regarding the decisions made for the Clan, except in what way to actually fulfill the demands of the warrior caste.


The fact that most clanners are however content with this shows that the constant indoctrination over the last two-hundred years was rather successful. All of this easily leads to intolerance and fanaticism, in fact it even encourages these particular states of mind.



Regarding Tarish: "Perhaps he will not be sure either. Or perhaps he doesn't see it."

Keep in mind he should have something that helped him continue through the 20 years of constant (and very brutal) testing in the sibko. Remember that of the hundred it started with it has been whittled down to less than ten by now.

My impression on our PCs:

Kevin is mainly interested in doing his duty as a Clan warrior; his tinkering gives him a creative outlet.

Cherish throws herself into battle enthusiastically in the knowledge that the Clan ways are right and good. She will follow the established route of ambitious warriors to perfect herself in and through combat and rise among the Clan.

Yuri is just different. (In fact, he answers to the higher responsibility of his bloodline, the ubiquitous Kerensky.)


So my point is: Tarnish should have something that keeps him going on. If he just doubts the Clan ways, why is he still there?


Folkert

 

[doghead]

Douane, alot of meat to chew on - its been the usual end of year rush recently, so I haven't had much time for thought. I will however, be getting to it. Thanks for all the input from everyone.

 

[doghead]

Update: Tarnish

OK. I've modified him a little. I thought about everything that you said, but decided that there were reasons for keeping it as is.

Unarmed Tarnish does not have the build of many warriors, so he has made up for it in skill. He is damned if he is going to let any snotty ignorant warrior dictate to him what is and isn't honourable. He knows the way of the wolf clan as well as anyone. He also believes that the unthinking arrogence and intolerance of the warrior caste is the the greatest danger to the clan life, the rot that eats away at the heart of the clans until they burst appart like a rotton melon. Hubris.

Security Systems Yes, he does mix with the other classes. Don't like it, call a trial, and be prepared to get bloodied.

Special Interest: Inner Sphere Know your enemy. At least, that is how Tarnish will explain (should he chose say anything to you at all) his interest and time spent in the librarys (assuming they have librarys) and with those who have experience of the IS life. Don't like it, see above.

Seduction Tarnish can be charming if he wishes. Indeed, he is quite personable. Personable. Proud. Prickly. Seduction seemed to be the most appropriate skill.

As for Gunnery and BM, I gave it serious thought. But the points need to improve it would have ment slashing and burning elsewhere. And anyway, he's a quick learner. You might be able to beat him for a while ...

OK. He's not quite the rebel that appeared to be forming. Indeed, in may ways he is quite traditional. He abhors waste. He believes deeply in honour and discipline. It just that he does not do it blindly like so many others, and he does not dismiss others out of hand.

 

[Douane]

OK. I've modified him a little. I thought about everything that you said, but decided that there were reasons for keeping it as is.

No problem! Just wanted to offer my input. [Not meant in the Cyberpunk 2020 way! (Where input is slang for girlfriend.) ]

Security Systems Yes, he does mix with the other classes. Don't like it, call a trial, and be prepared to get bloodied.

Yuri: " 'Prepare to get bloodied?' You mean I could actually hurt my knuckles while I pound your head into the pavement?"

Yuri: "Mingling with lower castes? As if his tainted genes are not enough already."




Probably, few Warriors will ever call Tarnish to a Trial over this (unless it seriously offends their sense of ethics), but many will despise him for it.

Special Interest: Inner Sphere Know your enemy. At least, that is how Tarnish will explain (should he chose say anything to you at all) his interest and time spent in the librarys (assuming they have librarys) and with those who have experience of the IS life. Don't like it, see above.

There are some problems with this:

1. As you have already guessed there are no libraries at all. (In fact, few clanners will ever see a real book in their lives.) You learned everything you need to know while being raised (either within the sibko or as part of your caste) and will broaden that knowledge with the experience gained in the course of your duty. Anything else will be just unnecessary ballast and therefore waste, quiaff?

1a. " [...] those who have experience of the IS life.". There are no such people among the Clans. There has been virtually no contact between the Clans and the Inner Sphere for over 250 years. (But see point 3 below.)


2. The state of information Tarnish is interested in. Many records were lost in the fighting on the Pentagon worlds and when Nicholas started the Second Exodus from there, he was mainly interested in Warriors and adequate support personal (Techs, Scientists and Laborers). Historical knowledge was of no interest to him. (Why preserve anything from very past you are trying to break with?) [And even before that, his own father wasn't really interested in maintaining a cadre of professional historians or anything, he had other priorities: "Overloaded with soldiers and military technicians and lacking experienced farmers and a manual-labor force [...]"]


3. The age and availability of the information: If there is surviving historical information and one manages to actually get his hands on this, it depicts the state the Inner Sphere was in over 250 years ago, at the end of the Star League. (Nothing on the Succession Wars that shaped the IS of today far more than the distant Star League.) While a small amount of information trickled in over the years, it was not very specific and heavily distorted. The perhaps best source of information, the reports of the Dragoons 3009 and 3019 are in no way common knowledge. In fact, only the respective Khans of the Clans have access to this information.


4. The quality of the accessible information: Everything will be skewed, both by the particular point-of-view of the Clans and by the bias against the Inner Sphere.


Thus, the only option open to Tarnish would probably be SI: Star League. (With the danger of drawing conclusions from very misleading information.)

As for Gunnery and BM, I gave it serious thought. But the points need to improve it would have ment slashing and burning elsewhere. And anyway, he's a quick learner. You might be able to beat him for a while ...

Just for your information from a rules point-of-view: It will take over a year of combat experience to get your Gunnery and Piloting up to skill level 3. (Of course, then it really slows down.)

Not meant to dissuade you from your decision; notice that Yuri's skills are even crappier because I faced the same dilemma.

 

[doghead]

Yeah, I noticed later that even with the Unarmed 3 he is only at 6+, meaning most of the others could give him a good pounding. I have been considering the wisdom of taking both Combat Sence and 6th Sence, it was mostly just a feel thing as I had no idea at the time what they actually ment in game terms. I'm still not really sure about 6th Sence.

Switching to Option B (30/21/3) would allow upping his Build to 4 and Ref to 7 (just like everyone else ), increasing his Ath to 7+ and his Phys to 5+. In effect, improving all the key skills you mentioned (as well as Unarmed).

I see what you mean about the Special Interest: Inner Sphere. Perhaps I should change it to Clan History, in as much as the clans were formed out of the conflict with and expulsion from the Inner Sphere.

OK. A fairly major reworking below. Jemal, there are some fairly major changes here. Is it OK to do so at this stage?

 

[doghead]

Option B: 30 points attributes, 21 points skills, 3 point advantages

- ATTRIBUTES -

BLD 3 (3)
REF 7 (6)+1
INT 7 (12)/2+1
LRN 6 (6)
CHA 3 (3)

Athletic +8 (18-BLD-REF)
Physical +4 (18-REF-INT)
Mental +5 (18-INT-LRN)
Social +8 (18-INT-CHA)

- SKILLS -

Athletic
Unarmed Combat 3/5+
Physical
Gunnery (Battlemech) 2/3+
Piloting (Battlemech) 2/3+
Mental
Perception 1/4+
Security Systems 1/4+
Special Interest: Clan History 1/4+
Tactics 2/3+
Social
Seduction 2/6+

- ADVANTAGES -

Edge 4

 

[Jemal]

Go ahead, nothing is set in stone yet.

 

[Douane]

I have to apologize for my slow activity over the last days, but instead of being quite my weekend had been rather hectic and it doesn't seem to be slowing down.


Jemal,

do you have any specific date in mind for starting this?

(I'm still owing you some write-ups and I don't think I'll be able to get to them during the next days. In addition, I don't know how my net access will be during this week due to staying with the family.)

I will be definitely be able to work on BT from the 29th on (one whole free week! ) so it would be cool if it were possible to time this accordingly.


Doghead,

what kind of info regarding the Trials do you need/want? You seem to have all the basic info, so what should I be looking for?


Festy,

same goes for you: What do you still need/want? I think we've covered the basics pretty well over the course of this thread, so what questions are still open?

 

[doghead]

I was just wondering what trials, appart from refusal and grievence, existed and how they are usually done (is combat the only way? weapons? time and place?).

 

[Douane]

I was just wondering what trials, appart from refusal and grievence, existed and how they are usually done (is combat the only way? weapons? time and place?).

Ah, I will post a complete list with details later. (There are not that many types.)


As for how they are being done:

There is absolutely no standard set for this. It totally depends on the outcome of the bargaining by the participants. True, a form of combat is usually chosen, but might be as well a chess match or a 100m dash. (Though these later examples might be considered un-clanlike by many, they are theoretically possible.)

In theory, unarmed should be considered the lowest bid, but it does not necessarily mean that your opponent will be unarmed, too.

This actually depends on how the challenge is handled: If you ask "What forces will defend ...", your opponent has the chance to name his choice and you have to bid against it. (Of course, if your bid is really low, your opponent might feel forced by honour to lower his own bid.) [This is the traditional form for a challenge and therefore most Trials.]

If you "I challenge this with ...", your opponent should be honour-bound to make an appropriate counter-offer to meet or underbid your bid. (But there's nothing that forces him to do so!)