Bear's Endurance vs Level Drain

[Majere]

By the rules
1) Yes bears endurance give yous a boost
2) There are no rules on what players do or do not know. Thats up to the DM
Level drains are the worst thing ever, the cripple your character in combat and then out of combat you have to pray to the gods of dice that you dont lose a bunch of levels to boot. Level drain mobs are worse thant anything else in the game, because other monsters can only make you lose one level... This is doubley so because almost all level drain effects are touch attack so if the creature get suprize your character can be 1-8 levels down before he even gets to act.

Honestly Id give the players anything they can reasonably argue. if nothing else your work as a DM will be twice as hard if the player are suddenly 6/7 levels apart becaus the the fighter lost 6 levels and the mage 1 and the cleric 3 and so on. They ARE fantasy adventurers in a world where this is all pretty well documented.
Thats just my 2c as a player/part time DM

 

[DarkMaster]

Why should it be moved to House Rules, when I'm simply asking how to interpret the rules? I honestly don't know if casting Bear's Endurance on a character suffering negative levels as a result of a Level Drain. The reason is that the Level Drain save takes place 24 hours after the actual level drain, and how would a spellcaster know just when to cast a spell that lasts a mere minute per level?

Even if the caster figured out exactly when to cast Bear's Endurance, would it help anyways? Since I see it as more of a general save to see if you can kick the Level Drain, not something you feel coming and can help against with a potion of Bear's Endurance. So what's the official word on my dilemma, or at least how have the rest of you interpreted the situation?

TTFN,

Yokiboy

Sorry I interpreted your question as does the fortitude bonus provided by bears endurance applies for level drain. But your question is not technical it is more "common sense". I agree that the body probably has to fight the whole 24 hours and not just the last second were the save is played. I guess it is all a question of interpretation. I personally would allow it, but now I can understand why you would not allow it.

Sorry next time I will try to jump less quickly to conclusion

 

[Scion]

Of course this also begs the question, at which point do you have to apply an antitoxin in order to gain the benefit?

The secondary effects happen 1 minute later (which, in the case of some people here, could be 'anytime after 1 minute I suppose). Does the antitoxin have to be applied within 1 round of the initial damage? 2 rounds? Can it be applied just before the save is applied?

According to the rules of the game so long as it is in effect when the save occurs then the character gets the bonus. Same for energy drain and its save.

So it sounds like some people here would say that the antitoxin must be applied several rounds in advance of the secondary save. Although how far in advance seems fairly ambiguous.

Personally I prefer the way the game is written. It is a bit unrealistic in some ways sure, but it is a simplification that helps keep away from a huge amount of bookkeeping. Much like many other parts of the system.

 

[dcollins]

Of course this also begs the question, at which point do you have to apply an Intelligence bonus to gain the benefit?

The addition of skill points happens only after all experience has been gained for a new level. Does the Intelligence bonus have to be applied within 1 round of the level-up? 2 rounds? Can it be applied just before the new level is applied?

According to the rules of the game it must be constant (or very nearly constant) over the entire time period. Same for energy drain and its save.

 

[Caliban]

Of course this also begs the question, at which point do you have to apply an Intelligence bonus to gain the benefit?

The addition of skill points happens only after all experience has been gained for a new level. Does the Intelligence bonus have to be applied within 1 round of the level-up? 2 rounds? Can it be applied just before the new level is applied?

According to the rules of the game it must be constant (or very nearly constant) over the entire time period. Same for energy drain and its save.

Where does it say that the Int bonus rule for skill points applies to Energy Drain and it's save? They are two very different things.

 

[dcollins]

Where does it say that the Int bonus rule for skill points applies to Energy Drain and it's save? They are two very different things.

I disagree. They seem very similar.

 

[Caliban]

I disagree. They seem very similar.

Err... How is qualifying for bonus skill points similar to making a single save 24 hours after you get a negative level?

The Int increase for skill points rule seems to be pretty specific to that one instance.

 

[dcollins]

Err... How is qualifying for bonus skill points similar to making a single save 24 hours after you get a negative level?

Both are simulating a long-term effect through assessment at a single point in time, out-of-game.

 

[Caliban]

Both are simulating a long-term effect through assessment at a single point in time, out-of-game.

Hmm... Nah, I think I will just stick with not screwing my players over. Besides, I really don't think your version is core rules. The rule seems to be pretty specific to the Int increase for skill points, it's not a generally stated rule.

 

[Zerth]

I agree, I also do not allow it. When energy drain mentions "24 hours", the only in-game rationale that makes sense is for a kind of injury that the victim slowly recovers from over the course of a day -- the save represents a whole day of recovery, not a single magic round. If a spell provides a benefit over most of the day (e.g., 3.0 endurance), then I allow it, otherwise not.

This is exactly the way we handle it in my gaming group.