Bear's Heart Spell Question?

[Aluvial]

Bear's Heart (Source: Defenders of the Faith, p. 81)

Transmutation

Level: Beastmaster 4, Clr 5, Drd 4
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 20 ft.
Target: Living Allies within 20 ft.
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: No

You turn your living allies (one per caster level) into fierce warriors, but exhaust them in the process. Allies gain a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength, and also a +1d4 temporary hit points per caster level. When the spell ends, and remaining hit points from its effect are lost, and each ally takes 1 point of subdual damage per level of the caster.

I'm curious if anyone feels if this spell is overpowered.

Has anyone seen this in play?

I feel that a 9th level cleric (5th level spells) can effect 9 of his comrades with a +4 Str +9d4 hit points for 9 rounds.

The negative is only 9 points of subdual.

Isn't this like giving 9 of your comrades rage without any of the bad side effects?

Aluvial

 

[Crothian]

Well, everyone has to be within 20ft of you and that can be a problem. But I've seen it in play and we didn't have a problems with it. I don't think it should be a cleric spell though, I like to think Druids can get some good spells that clerics do not.

 

[Aluvial]

You mean that they have to stay within 20' of you?

Or just be within 20' when you cast the spell?

Aluvial

 

[Staffan]

I'm generally wary of spells based quadratically on level (e.g. 1 target per level gets a level-based bonus), and Bear's Heart certainly qualifies. I'd recommend changing it to 1d8 temporary hp, period, and probably change the penalty to "become fatigued" (like a barbarian after a rage). That would basically make it a little better than a "Mass Aid", and I think 5th level would be appropriate for that.

 

[Crothian]

You mean that they have to stay within 20' of you?

Or just be within 20' when you cast the spell?

Aluvial

No, they just have to be within 20ft when the spell is cast.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Of course, Mass Aid would probably be balanced as a 3rd level spell. . . so the 5th level altered version of Bear's Heart would very rarely see use. A 9th level cleric can afford to cast quite a few Bull's Strengths so the strength just does with one 5th level slot what would otherwise be done with several 2nd level slots. The temporary hit points seem like the real attraction of the spell. And 1d8 temporary hit points doesn't seem so impressive when compared to -1 to hit, damage, saves and skill checks for all your enemies (which is what you get with Prayer).

I haven't had a chance to play with Bear's Heart myself but, even with the quadratic effect, it doesn't seem to blow spells like Flame Strike, empowered Dispel Magic, Spell Resistance, Wall of Stone, and Summon Monster V out of the water. I would certainly consider the opportunity cost before preparing it for my cleric or asking the party's cleric to prepare it.

I'm generally wary of spells based quadratically on level (e.g. 1 target per level gets a level-based bonus), and Bear's Heart certainly qualifies. I'd recommend changing it to 1d8 temporary hp, period, and probably change the penalty to "become fatigued" (like a barbarian after a rage). That would basically make it a little better than a "Mass Aid", and I think 5th level would be appropriate for that.

 

[Mercule]

I'm generally wary of spells based quadratically on level (e.g. 1 target per level gets a level-based bonus), and Bear's Heart certainly qualifies. I'd recommend changing it to 1d8 temporary hp, period, and probably change the penalty to "become fatigued" (like a barbarian after a rage). That would basically make it a little better than a "Mass Aid", and I think 5th level would be appropriate for that.

Except that 1d8 hp is pretty weak at 7th+ level. Personally, if I thought the spell was overpowered (and I don't), I'd limit the number of targets rather than the hp. There aren't any long-term worthwhile hp-adder spells in the core books.

 

[Savage Wombat]

I DMd a fairly extensive campaign, with the druid making good use of Bear's Heart - and I found it to be pretty powerful. I never quite decided it was too powerful - but I certainly considered it.

The STR bonus isn't really the issue, because at that level the fighters all have STR boosting items that don't stack with it - but that's an awful lot of HP to wear through. And the penalty doesn't really apply afterwards.

 

[SteelDraco]

Bear's Heart is certainly a top fourth level spell. The side effect is pretty minimal - some subdual damage is a pretty minor cost for quite a large HP buffer.

I found that it was a very useful druid spell. If it was in my campaign, I'd probobably keep it as-is, but as a 5th level spell. At fourth, I'd probably decrease the number of targets to 1 per 2 levels. I don't typically like balancing something like that by using side effects.

 

[Aluvial]

Bear's Heart is certainly a top fourth level spell. The side effect is pretty minimal - some subdual damage is a pretty minor cost for quite a large HP buffer.

I found that it was a very useful druid spell. If it was in my campaign, I'd probobably keep it as-is, but as a 5th level spell. At fourth, I'd probably decrease the number of targets to 1 per 2 levels. I don't typically like balancing something like that by using side effects.

My solution was to make the hit point bonus to just work like a Endurance spell.

Drop the subdual altogether, keep the strength and all other factors the same.

What do you think of that solution?

Aluvial