Because AO threads never go out of style.

As no one else has taken the Pedant Paragon Path yet, I can be the first to point out that AO threads were never in style to begin with. Long ago, in days of 3.x, there were AoO threads. Today, in our modern utopia of 4e, there are OA threads. Alas, no AO threads, ever.

Also, re-zid-u-um, not re-zid-i-um. Thank you.

/pedant
 

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Not addressing the forced movement stuff, but:
a) an opponent leaves your threatened square (but NOT when he enters your threatened square)
b) when an opponent within range uses a ranged or area attack power including close bursts.
For b), close powers don't provoke. Also note that for both a) and b), you only threaten squares adjacent to you, even if you're using a reach weapon (unless you have threatening reach). So it won't be for an enemy "within range", it will only be for an adjacent enemy.
 

As no one else has taken the Pedant Paragon Path yet, I can be the first to point out that AO threads were never in style to begin with. Long ago, in days of 3.x, there were AoO threads. Today, in our modern utopia of 4e, there are OA threads. Alas, no AO threads, ever.

Also, re-zid-u-um, not re-zid-i-um. Thank you.

/pedant

Thanks... I was tripping out for a second thinking "what? I thought it was the other way around?"
 


I mean, the OA rules are obstensibly the same for movement as they were since 2nd Edition's Combat and Tactics first introduced them, and the reasoning I gave was good enough then to describe this very situation.

If you don't understand the fluff behind the mechanics, that's okay. But don't pretend they don't exist... they're one of the few things that -has not- changed.

You might be surprised at what I am capable of understanding.

For example, I understand that the original reason for movement OAs is so that the PCs cannot just rush past the guards and kill the king. The entire reason for the rule at all is to protect the backrank in a turn based sequence game system (typically protecting the PC squishies from monsters getting past front rank PCs). It has zip, zilch, nada to do with lowering one's guard. That is nonsense fluff to describe game mechanic balance and always has been.

Unfortunately with 4E, one can take a wide detour around the guards and still get to the King. So, the OA movement rule still exists but the main reason for its game mechanics existence is less important now. There used to be a shortest path past the guards. Now, that doesn't exist unless the guards cover the entire area. So, the game designers had to add the concept of Fighter marks in order to attempt to offset this deficit. It helps some, but it's still not as strong as the original rules which forced either an OA or extra movement regardless of who was in your way.

So no, the fluff descriptions might work for some people, but they don't make a lot of sense now and never really did. They backhandedly and inadequately explain the existence of rules that really should have been better overhauled in the 4E game system because of how other rules have changed. If the fluff makes plausible sense to you even in scenarios where guard should be lowered but isn't, great for you.

But it's the reason the OP started this thread. They OA rules don't really make sense and never did from a fluff perspective. They used to make sense from a game mechanics balance perspective, but they don't even do that as well anymore.


The original reason for missile weapon OAs (and ranged spells for that matter) is because ranged PCs can hide in cover and be safe and the designers wanted a way to lower that safety in melee. Unfortunately with all of the 4E shifts from powers (and just the normal shift), ranged missile and spell OAs almost never occur in the game system anymore. But, this remnant of a rule is still there, it has just become more or less obsolete by shift and/or shift powers and by most large monsters not having threatening reach (and was a bit obsolete in 3E with the 5 foot step, it's just more obsolete now).

OA rules should have been improved for 4E, but they were not (with the exception of close powers not provoking). To expect that they would be improved to the point that the fluff made sense as well would have been a stretch though. The OA rules are purely a game mechanic adjustment to turn based sequencing and balance issues.
 


What on earth are you smoking? I don't want any...

Go read the powers before making such snide remarks. Or do your players not use the powers to their advantage and stand there and get smacked? There are 435 powers that allow the PC to shift, or minimize or penalize enemy shifting in the Compendium. 48 of these are first level powers. Most ranged classes have a way to acquire this. This does not even take into account items.

There are even racial powers like Gensai who can do it.

Add to this list Teleport which is all over the place.

OA avoidance is all over the place in 4E for PCs. Monsters, on the other hand, have little of it other than shift and taking the long way around defenders.

The only significant OA avoidance that occurred in 3E that is mostly lacking in 4E is flight and invisibility. But with the addition of longer range shifts and teleports, there are fewer opportunities for OA in 4E than in 3E. OA is mostly a non-entity in 4E for PCs. I rarely see a player take an OA. I occasionally see a player give an OA.
 
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You might be surprised at what I am capable of understanding.

For example, I understand that the original reason for movement OAs is so that the PCs cannot just rush past the guards and kill the king. The entire reason for the rule at all is to protect the backrank in a turn based sequence game system (typically protecting the PC squishies from monsters getting past front rank PCs). It has zip, zilch, nada to do with lowering one's guard. That is nonsense fluff to describe game mechanic balance and always has been.

In the original OA rules, there was an action called 'withdrawl' which describes -exactly- what I was talking about... moving without attacking to defend yourself from OAs. That became 'if you only move, the square you leave doesn't count' which became what we have now.

OAs have always been like that, have always had that explanation.

What does 4th do that suddenly change that? Nothing, except streamline the whole thing.
 


OAs have always been like that, have always had that explanation.

What does 4th do that suddenly change that? Nothing, except streamline the whole thing.

The fluff explanation doesn't fit. Hence the reason for the OP's post here. There are legitimate reasons that people read the fluff of the rules and sometimes don't get it.

The fluff explanation never has fit too well (vague at best). But, that doesn't matter. What matters is that the OP can buy into the fact that the fluff explanation doesn't really fit and focus more on the rules aspect of it.

The reason the fluff explanation never fit is because the rules were not added due to the fluff and hence make perfect sense, instead they were added for game mechanic balance reasons. So, OAs do not occur in fluff situations where they should (like the prone unconscious PC not lowering his guard, but the prone conscious PC doing so, how much more can you lower your guard than by being unconscious?).

An argument of "that's the way the fluff has always been" doesn't change this.

The fluff is still a vague window dressing at best and always has been.
 

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