Been away for a while - back with a question.

[Melkor]

Hi folks,

I posted a similar question over on RPG.net, but wanted to get feedback here as well. I haven't played 4E since it first came out, but have started re-reading the rules to see if it's something I want to try and jump into again.

That said, I had a quick question about one of the things that I remember coming up when we first played:

Handling Powers/Spells outside of Encounters - Like "Sleep", have any guidelines been put forth in Dragon Magazine, or any of the supplements for D&D 4E that give advice and guidelines for handling things like casting Sleep on someone when you aren't in combat (since a lot of the listed material in the products deals only with what happens during an encounter, not outside of combat)?

If not, how do you folks go about handling these situations in your games?

Thanks!

 

[Phaezen]

As a dm I would allow creative use of powers outside a combat encounter. Sticking to the basc rules ofcourse, you would need a short rest to refresh encounter powers and an extended rest to refresh dailies afterwards.

 

[Jack99]

I am not sure I understand your question - in any edition, the moment you cast an offensive spell on someone, you are in combat...

 

[MrGrenadine]

I am not sure I understand your question - in any edition, the moment you cast an offensive spell on someone, you are in combat...

That's certainly one way you could play. But I think we could all think of situations where a power (or spell, or swing of a weapon) could be used for a good reason out of combat, as well.

Creative uses for powers should be encouraged, I think, as long (as Phaezen mentioned) the players understand they'll need the standard amount of rest before using the same 4e power.

 

[Jack99]

That's certainly one way you could play. But I think we could all think of situations where a power (or spell, or swing of a weapon) could be used for a good reason out of combat, as well.

Creative uses for powers should be encouraged, I think, as long (as Phaezen mentioned) the players understand they'll need the standard amount of rest before using the same 4e power.

I have no problem with creative uses for powers, as you call it - however the example given by the OP is neither creative nor anything really. Or maybe I am just missing something. Care to give a "creative" example involving casting sleep on someone?

 

[Melkor]

I am not sure I understand your question - in any edition, the moment you cast an offensive spell on someone, you are in combat...

Not necessarily....Take the example of a group who enters an inn with a barkeep behind the bar, and no one else in the room....One of the characters casts sleep on the barkeep so they can look around without having to worry about him.

I wouldn't consider that a 'combat' situation...especially if the sleep spell worked on the NPC.

My question is regarding powers/spells which, in older editions of D&D might have listed effects that could take place outside of combat, but in 4E seem to be described as only having specific effects during a combat encounter....

Again, I have been away for a while, so the Sleep spell is the example that comes to mind. Have any of you run across this situation with any other powers?

 

[thecasualoblivion]

Wizards in my campaigns use Scorching Burst to light all manner of things on fire. Barns, trees, a desk covered in official documents, rats, sacks of wheat, and barrels of beer have all been set ablaze thanks to Scorching Burst. Its not just for people!

Another good one is attack powers that also let you fly or teleport. Who says you can't use those powers minus the attack.

 

[darjr]

Didn't I read somewhere a lazer cleric using his power to heal an old friend on his sick bed. He used a power to crush incense, or light a warming fire, or candle, and the healing was given to his sick friend.

It was really kind of cool.

 

[Jack99]

Not necessarily....Take the example of a group who enters an inn with a barkeep behind the bar, and no one else in the room....One of the characters casts sleep on the barkeep so they can look around without having to worry about him.

I wouldn't consider that a 'combat' situation...especially if the sleep spell worked on the NPC.

My question is regarding powers/spells which, in older editions of D&D might have listed effects that could take place outside of combat, but in 4E seem to be described as only having specific effects during a combat encounter....

Again, I have been away for a while, so the Sleep spell is the example that comes to mind. Have any of you run across this situation with any other powers?

Well, you might not consider it a combat situation, but it is, by the rules of just about any edition of D&D.

Either you would surprise the barkeep and get a shot landing sleep on him, or there would be initiative and it would be up to the dice.

Anyway, from the PHB page 57:

a power directly affects one or more creatures or objects, it has a “Target” or “Targets” entry. Some powers include objects as targets. At the DM’s discretion, a power that targets a creature can also target an object, whether or not the power identifies an object as a potential target.
When a power’s target entry specifies that it affects you and one or more of your allies, then you can take advantage of the power’s effect along with
your teammates. Otherwise, “ally” or “allies” does not include you, and both terms assume willing targets. “Enemy” or “enemies” means a creature or
creatures that aren’t your allies (whether those creatures are hostile toward you or not). “Creature” or creatures” means allies and enemies both, as well
as you.

The rule for "thinking creatively" has always been there. while shutting down exploiting like shooting at a stone for your ally to heal.

 

[Voadam]

Not necessarily....Take the example of a group who enters an inn with a barkeep behind the bar, and no one else in the room....One of the characters casts sleep on the barkeep so they can look around without having to worry about him.

I wouldn't consider that a 'combat' situation...especially if the sleep spell worked on the NPC.

That doesn't seem different from hitting him with a save or die spell that kills him in one shot. Both are combat, just really short ones.

At wills can be done all the time. (Ghost sound to have your hero theme song playing as you walk down the street for example).

Encounter powers need a short rest after using them.

Dailies need an extended rest after using them.

I think its like prior editions of D&D, using a power outside of combat the effects are generally adjudicated by DM judgment. I.e. what effects can prestidigitation really do.