Been creating a Zelda Tabletop RPG off and on for a year + now.....

[Stormonu]

In several places in the text you alternate talking about rolling d6's and d4's. Biggest example is in "Explanation of Play". At the start of the paragraph, you mention rolling d6's for attributes. In the example, you are rolling d4's.

Which is correct, or am I missing something?

Also, it seems like starting characters will have a hard time hitting even Easy (5) DC's, as they will have a 1k1 attribute (roll 1 for trait, keep 1 for medallion) for most things - if they're using a d4, it's impossible to hit a 5 DC without some sort of positive modifier. And this is supposed to be for something like "recognizing an old friend"?

An Average (15) DC would require you to have a 6k6 roll with d4s to have a decent (50%) chance of success (compare to a 3k3 in L5R with it's d10's - "average" ability; 2 for trait, 1 for skill) and a minimum of 4k4! If you're using d4's, I think you need to half your DC's (rounded down?).

Since you are somewhat basing the roll/keep system on L5R, are you using exploding dice (i.e., if the die rolls max, you roll and add again)?

 

[Stormonu]

Sorry, don't sound to mean with these suggestions - just trying to be helpful (really, I am!)

I like the advancement trees, but I'd like to suggest a modification for the tiers; right now they seem a bit uneven. Tier 1 is the top, Tier 2 is below and so forth (i.e., a Tier is a row in the tree):

Tier 1: Increase an Attribute
Tier 2: Gain Skill
Tier 3: Increase an Attribute
Tier 4: Gain Skill
Tier 5: Gain Skill
Tier 6: Increase an Attribute
Tier 7: Gain Skill
Tier 8: Gain Skill
Tier 9: Gain Skill

Further Tiers can be expanded out by increasing the number of skills gained between an attribute increase. For example, an Attribute increase would happen at Tier 10, then there would be four tiers of skill gains.

Getting an attribute increase would become harder and harder as you drill down, and most increases would consist of small skill increases.

Increase Virtues through this tree at your own peril .

(Game Theory: Increase of an attribute grants a broad increase in the number of dice rolled for many skills. Increase of a skill only grants a small bonus to one area of study

Increasing the number of dice rolled allows characters to trend towards a more average or high result, thus reducing the number of times the character fails or botches an attempt. It "steadies" results, making success more predictable.

Increasing the number of dice kept allows the character to hit higher target numbers and attempt more complicated activities. It increase the character's raw potential and capacity, while also increasing the chance of success.)

 

[Evenglare]

In several places in the text you alternate talking about rolling d6's and d4's. Biggest example is in "Explanation of Play". At the start of the paragraph, you mention rolling d6's for attributes. In the example, you are rolling d4's.

Which is correct, or am I missing something?

This is correct, however, d4s are only for reaction rolls . They are to set target number for sentient creatures that defend. Like link defending with a shield. They are never used for skills.

Also, it seems like starting characters will have a hard time hitting even Easy (5) DC's, as they will have a 1k1 attribute (roll 1 for trait, keep 1 for medallion) for most things - if they're using a d4, it's impossible to hit a 5 DC without some sort of positive modifier. And this is supposed to be for something like "recognizing an old friend"?

When using a skill you will be rolling a d6 almost certainly with a modifier. It is very possible to hit something with a 5, although I very well may need to decrease those TN's those were actually ripped directly from the TN mods of L5R which I do realize uses 10s. I just used 5 as a base TN because defending with a d4 (average 2.5) would do half a heart, so a TN of 5 would do a full heart of damage which would be the sort of "base" TN to use.

There

An Average (15) DC would require you to have a 6k6 roll with d4s to have a decent (50%) chance of success (compare to a 3k3 in L5R with it's d10's - "average" ability; 2 for trait, 1 for skill) and a minimum of 4k4! If you're using d4's, I think you need to half your DC's (rounded down?).

Since you are somewhat basing the roll/keep system on L5R, are you using exploding dice (i.e., if the die rolls max, you roll and add again)?

Again I will have to address those DCs, which is why i posted this on here . I really appreciate this feed back !

 

[Evenglare]

Sorry, don't sound to mean with these suggestions - just trying to be helpful (really, I am!)

I like the advancement trees, but I'd like to suggest a modification for the tiers; right now they seem a bit uneven. Tier 1 is the top, Tier 2 is below and so forth (i.e., a Tier is a row in the tree):

Tier 1: Increase an Attribute
Tier 2: Gain Skill
Tier 3: Increase an Attribute
Tier 4: Gain Skill
Tier 5: Gain Skill
Tier 6: Increase an Attribute
Tier 7: Gain Skill
Tier 8: Gain Skill
Tier 9: Gain Skill

Further Tiers can be expanded out by increasing the number of skills gained between an attribute increase. For example, an Attribute increase would happen at Tier 10, then there would be four tiers of skill gains.

Getting an attribute increase would become harder and harder as you drill down, and most increases would consist of small skill increases.

Increase Virtues through this tree at your own peril .

(Game Theory: Increase of an attribute grants a broad increase in the number of dice rolled for many skills. Increase of a skill only grants a small bonus to one area of study

Increasing the number of dice rolled allows characters to trend towards a more average or high result, thus reducing the number of times the character fails or botches an attempt. It "steadies" results, making success more predictable.

Increasing the number of dice kept allows the character to hit higher target numbers and attempt more complicated activities. It increase the character's raw potential and capacity, while also increasing the chance of success.)

I'm trying to understand the tier advancement. Seeing as a character will only be gaining a total of 13 hearts (and then going that high would be very unadvised.) So 10 tiers to me seems a bit much. Especially since I have an Attribute point gaining a dice roll (attribute) or a dice keep (virtue), and adding a +1 towards a skill . So when gaining a level you effectively gain a +1 Mod to a skill and an additional dice where you need choose.

Perhaps I didnt make that clear enough in the document?

 

[Stormonu]

This is correct, however, d4s are only for reaction rolls . They are to set target number for sentient creatures that defend. Like link defending with a shield. They are never used for skills.

That's a bit confusing, or at least doesn't seem well explained in the document. I'm also not comfortable in that the system clearly favors attacking over defending.

 

[Evenglare]

That's a bit confusing, or at least doesn't seem well explained in the document. I'm also not comfortable in that the system clearly favors attacking over defending.

Well, the system is geared towards defeating enemies fairly quickly, it would kind of suck if in the zelda games you couldnt kill something quickly. That's kind of hard coded. But did the reaction rolls section not explain the whole virtue rolls clearly enough ? What about it exactly did you not get?

Also , it doesnt favor attacking as much as it would suggest. With a basic attack of 1k1, vs 1d4, your average roll would be a 3.5, and your defense roll would be a 2.5. This would deal half a heart of damage. If enemies have 2 hearts, you are making 4 rolls to kill it. Assuming there are an average of 3 enemies, you are making 12 . Lets say a turn takes... a minute to declare your movement and attack or spell (and that's being generously), the GM would have to make a virtue roll (i could have chosen a static number but I wanted to interaction, and people saying what they are doing, not just rolling against a number and hitting, I wanted to randomness which is the reason for the reaction rolls).

That's around 12 minutes a combat. Of course it could be a little faster or slower. Enemies can have more or less defense, and attack. Same with characters. I dont think the system is unreasonable when looking at it mathematically.

 

[Stormonu]

I'm trying to understand the tier advancement. Seeing as a character will only be gaining a total of 13 hearts (and then going that high would be very unadvised.) So 10 tiers to me seems a bit much. Especially since I have an Attribute point gaining a dice roll (attribute) or a dice keep (virtue), and adding a +1 towards a skill . So when gaining a level you effectively gain a +1 Mod to a skill and an additional dice where you need choose.

Perhaps I didnt make that clear enough in the document?

I didn't catch the 13 heart max, I was going with the idea that characters could be "infinitely" leveled.

1. Every player begins with 3 ability points to enhance their character. These ability points can be distributed in a number of ways. A character can allocate these points in any way choosing abilities from either their Race, Attributes, or Virtues.
2. Each of these has a tree of abilities to gain. When you create your character each character begins with the top ability in their Race tree, associated Attribute tree, and may choose one virtue to assign their last point.

It took me a bit to track this down, and it seems contradictory. #1 seems to indicate you can spend the points any way you want (3 in race OR 2 in race and 1 in attribute OR 1 in race, 1 in attribute and 1 in virtue OR any combination in-between.) Whereas #2 seems to indicate you can only spend 1 in Race, 1 in Attribute and 1 in Virtue. It's also not clear in point #2 if these are additional points or allocation of the three points from #1 .

Also, unless I missed it, I don't see how characters gain/spend XP in the document, so I wasn't sure how quickly characters advanced in a given tree (per heart do they only advance in 1 tree or in once in each tree per advancement?) Really, beyond initial generation I missed any discussion how characters improve.

Another thing - it's not clear if you can take a skill more than once in your system. In comparison in L5R, you can have 10 ranks in a skill, with special benefits generally at rank 3 (journeyman), 5 (master) and 7 (grand master). At the very least, I would consider possibly +1 = initiate, +2 = apprentice, +3 = journeyman, +4 = master, +5 = grand master; the "titles" are based on the ancient titles of apprenticeship). In fact, that was what I was assuming with the lengthened Tiers (right now, you only have 5 Tiers per tree)

 

[Evenglare]

I didn't catch the 13 heart max, I was going with the idea that characters could be "infinitely" leveled.

Also, unless I missed it, I don't see how characters gain/spend XP in the document, so I wasn't sure how quickly characters advanced in a given tree (per heart do they only advance in 1 tree or in once in each tree per advancement?) Really, beyond initial generation I missed any discussion how characters improve.

This is not clearly typed yet, as it will be in the GM section. Characters will gain heart containers (in effect leveling) , from their patron when they complete their quests given to them, or however the GM decides. I wanted to get away from experience based leveling. I will freely admit that is something that may not appeal to people wanting a solid advancement system. However In the current campaign I am running we gain levels as dictated by the story. In a sense that's how it is in zelda. Whenever you beat a boss you gain a heart container.

My patron idea (which admittedly is inspiration from 13th age) for giving heart containers is from the simple fact that I think it would be kind of... for lack of a better word... dumb, each time you beat a boss to have it drop 3 (or however many containers) for each member of the party. Then you have crap like, oh I want all 3 containers, or some other stupid stuff that would arise from a problem player.

This is where the patron system comes in which the patron specifically gives a character a container. This relies on story and GM trust quite a bit, but again those are the types of games I usually run. It is a bit old school, not everyone will level at the same time.

Another thing - it's not clear if you can take a skill more than once in your system. In comparison in L5R, you can have 10 ranks in a skill, with special benefits generally at rank 3 (journeyman), 5 (master) and 7 (grand master). At the very least, I would consider possibly +1 = initiate, +2 = apprentice, +3 = journeyman, +4 = master, +5 = grand master; the "titles" are based on the ancient titles of apprenticeship). In fact, that was what I was assuming with the lengthened Tiers (right now, you only have 5 Tiers per tree)

Well the skills are obtained from the skill tree. So when you allocate a point in a certain attribute , you get to pick a skill to gain a modifier in. Character creation requires some restrictions , you get a point in a virtue of your choise, a point in your race skill tree, and you get a point in your relevant attribute skill tree (designated by your race).

I should say that this isnt based on the L5R system as much as you seem to think it is. Infact the only thing is really the roll and keep system, and even that is quite different on how it is handled. I will be sure to change that "applied any way you want". That is indeed not the case at character creation. (when you gain a heart container you CAN apply them however).I do appreciate all the questions and comments !

 

[Stormonu]

Well, the system is geared towards defeating enemies fairly quickly, it would kind of suck if in the zelda games you couldnt kill something quickly. That's kind of hard coded. But did the reaction rolls section not explain the whole virtue rolls clearly enough ? What about it exactly did you not get?

Well, when any given roll is composed of an Attribute (d6 - "Attributes" - paragraph 1) + Virtue (d4 - "Virtues" - paragraph 1) - that makes it confusing what you're rolling .

Be careful on the attacks vs. reactions, that goes both ways - characters can expect to beat up on enemies quickly, but counterattacks from the enemy can quickly pile up on characters; while it's been a while since I played Zelda a lot of the battles hinge on the player being able to evade the enemy attack

You really should be able to get the same results if the opponents just have less dice or no bonus to the roll, without having to switch between dice.

Personally, I like sticking with the d4's. They just seem more "Zelda-ey".

 

[Evenglare]

Well, when any given roll is composed of an Attribute (d6 - "Attributes" - paragraph 1) + Virtue (d4 - "Virtues" - paragraph 1) - that makes it confusing what you're rolling .

Be careful on the attacks vs. reactions, that goes both ways - characters can expect to beat up on enemies quickly, but counterattacks from the enemy can quickly pile up on characters; while it's been a while since I played Zelda a lot of the battles hinge on the player being able to evade the enemy attack

You really should be able to get the same results if the opponents just have less dice or no bonus to the roll, without having to switch between dice.

Personally, I like sticking with the d4's. They just seem more "Zelda-ey".

Well a roll shouldnt have BOTH virtues and attributes. You will only ever be rolling a d6 or a d4. Perhaps you have mistaken the fact that your skill rolls keep the virtue value? Virtues are only used during reaction rolls. In general an attack or action uses a d6. A defensive roll uses a d4. Also character wills be assumed to be equipped with shields and such, which will give a bonus on defenses. For instance a kokiri shield will give a +1 . This in effect makes your base courage roll between a 2-5 with an average of 3.5. This means that the enemy will have to roll a bit higher than the player. Thus giving the player an advantage.

I really need to start writing out some equipement, that will make all the difference in combat. It just doesnt look like it right now because nothing is there... which is entirely my fault.