Being immune to something

[NuSair]

Had an interesting conversation this weekend after playing and wanted to share/get some input.

Does being immune to something allow you to ignore the effects of a spell? Example- Can a Golem just walk though a wall of force or does a shield made of fire impede attacks made by someone immune to fire or would a shield spell even effect the attack of a Golem?

 

[Sage Genesis]

Golem spell immunity only means they have an unbeatable Spell Resistance. If a spell allows spell resistance, then the golem is immune.

The spells Wall of Force and Shield don't allow spell resistance. Therefore, the golem has no special immunity or resistance to such spells whatsoever.

 

[NuSair]

Actually, this question is more about being immune to effects and the golem references were simple, quick examples.

But, you are saying that being immune to something only protects you from things that you would have a spell resistance against.

Thus, if there was something that dealt fire damage, that allowed no save or spell resistance, and you were immune to fire... that you would still take the damage.

Is that what you are saying?

 

[Kinak]

These are two different rules that use the same word, in the same way Spell Resistance and Fire Resistance have nothing to do with each other.

Golems:
Rules as Written, golem immunity just works as perfect Spell Resistance for anything that allows it.

That means most effects that are already cast work fine against it, but new spells (except conjuration) tend not to. Similarly, they don't ignore the enchantments on weapons or armor. You can double check the individual spell entries, though.

Now, personally, I think a sufficiently powerful golem battering down a wall of force would just be too awesome not to allow. But that's the Rule of Cool, nothing in the book.

It's not quite 3.5, but the Colossi in Pathfinder's Bestiary 4 have a Selective Antimagic Field that works about the way golems under the opposite ruling would. It's pretty sweet... as long as your players don't use too many buffs. So if you want it to work this way, that's a good way to word it.

Fire:
As for the fire question, the actual spell fire shield won't do anything to someone immune to fire, but that's because it just does damage. All fire immunity does is let you ignore all damage typed "fire." It's infinite fire resistance, basically.

An actual shield made of fire that somehow provides a shield bonus, you'd have to provide a ruling. I'd definitely rule it on a case-by-case basis because it depends on how the shield is made.

If the shield is just made out of roughly normal fire, it probably shouldn't provide a shield bonus, because things like arrows and swords will go right through it. A fire so hot it'll melt steel and vaporize wood I'd probably let someone immune to fire reach through, along with sufficiently enchanted weapons and adamantine. If it's made out of some sort of crystallized fire with physical form, I'd have it effect those immune to fire normally.

Cheers!
Kinak

 

[Sage Genesis]

No, that's not what I'm saying. I was just answering your question with regards to the example you used. Fire immunity is not the same as a golem's spell immunity.

It's important to realize that there is no such thing as generic immunity in 3e. You can have fire immunity, which makes you immune to fire damage. But a golem's spell immunity is something that makes you immune to certain kinds of spells (whether they inflict damage or not).

Fire immunity, cold immunity, and spell immunity are all explained in the DMG.

(SRD link: http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/specialAbilities.htm )

 

[Umbran]

Had an interesting conversation this weekend after playing and wanted to share/get some input.

Does being immune to something allow you to ignore the effects of a spell?

Quoting the d20SRD:
"Immunity to Magic (Ex)
Golems have immunity to most magical and supernatural effects, except when otherwise noted."

On spell immunity (emphasis mine):
"A creature with spell immunity avoids the effects of spells and spell-like abilities that directly affect it. This works exactly like spell resistance, except that it cannot be overcome."

On Spell Resistance:
"Only spells and spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance. Extraordinary and supernatural abilities (including enhancement bonuses on magic weapons) are not."

Now, we see that golem magic immunity is not exactly like Spell Immunity to all spells - the Golem power includes supernatural effects, while Spell Immunity does not.

But, the functional bit here is the "directly affect" part. Is the magic itself *directly* affecting the golem? There's a lot of judgement call in that question - you have to decide for yourself.

If you want to walk through a wall of force, get yourself a colossus - they have outright Antimagic Field.

 

[delericho]

Edit: removing my post - others explain it much better.

 

[Sage Genesis]

Quoting the d20SRD:
"Immunity to Magic (Ex)
Golems have immunity to most magical and supernatural effects, except when otherwise noted."

Every single golem in the SRD clarifies that exact same trait to mean the following though:
"A [insert type here] golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance."

 

[Greenfield]

Quoting the d20SRD:
"Immunity to Magic (Ex)
Golems have immunity to most magical and supernatural effects, except when otherwise noted."

On spell immunity (emphasis mine):
"A creature with spell immunity avoids the effects of spells and spell-like abilities that directly affect it. This works exactly like spell resistance, except that it cannot be overcome."

On Spell Resistance:
"Only spells and spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance. Extraordinary and supernatural abilities (including enhancement bonuses on magic weapons) are not."

Now, we see that golem magic immunity is not exactly like Spell Immunity to all spells - the Golem power includes supernatural effects, while Spell Immunity does not.

But, the functional bit here is the "directly affect" part. Is the magic itself *directly* affecting the golem? There's a lot of judgement call in that question - you have to decide for yourself.

If you want to walk through a wall of force, get yourself a colossus - they have outright Antimagic Field.

A note, if you will: AntiMagic Field doesn't take down or bypass Wall of Force. It's one of the two spells specifically named as not being affected. So even your epic Colossus doesn't walk through those, if they're in place before his AMF covers the area.