D&D General Ben Riggs interviews Fred Hicks and Cam Banks, then shares WotC sales data.

[mamba]

What could "selling faster" mean other than "selling more during the analogous period for the previous game"?

nothing, but 2014 was selling faster in 2016 and basically right through until 2024 than it was in 2014. So 2024 selling faster than 5e did in 2014 is not telling us anything about whether it sold faster than 5e did in, say 2019 to 2022.

 

[darjr]

Reposting this here instead of quoting. It’s a WotC restatement and I think some folk are missing it. If it spent change your mind that’s fine. But it’s not 2024 doing better than 2014 it’s ….

First month of new PHB > first 2 full years of the 2014 PHB.


Also in the panel Ben had more data by year. I didn’t take great notes nor did my photos turn out so tune into his nation to see.

 

[Charlaquin]

It feels weird that in less than 10 posts this thread turned into a defense of 2024 D&D, instead of discussing the ramp in popularity (and profit) of 2014 D&D and the things that might have influenced that.

Welcome to Edition War 2

 

[Zardnaar]

Reposting this here instead of quoting. It’s a WotC restatement and I think some folk are missing it. If it spent change your mind that’s fine. But it’s not 2024 doing better than 2014 it’s ….

First month of new PHB > first 2 full years of the 2014 PHB.


Also in the panel Ben had more data by year. I didn’t take great notes nor did my photos turn out so tune into his nation to see.

That kind of parachutes 5.5 into 2017 -19 sales out the gate. 5.0 doubled in sales 2017.

Games 10 (13?) times bigger than 2014.

Basically to be expected.

 

[Reynard]

Welcome to Edition War 2

 

[Lanefan]

That was a pretty simple reaction to the untouched claim of 5E having peaked.

5e has come, and peaked, and gone; and the book is now mostly closed on it.

5.5e's peak is most likely yet to come.

 

[Sulicius]

5e has come, and peaked, and gone; and the book is now mostly closed on it.

5.5e's peak is most likely yet to come.

I am not so sure. People who play 5e have lots of fun with it. It's already proven to be an amazing edition of D&D.

It's harder to sell people on the game again. 5e reached FAR beyond any TTRPG's reach. People who are playing D&D 5e now might not be as up to date with everything. And if they knew of 5e24? Would they go buy it? I am not so sure. We already know many people are fine with just playing what they are used to.

5e24's biggest competitor isn't Daggerheart or Shadowdark or Draw Steel, it's 5e.

Now the fact that it seems to have been doing well doesn't mean it will ever even out-sell 5e. As we know, 5e kept selling for years and years, and even now it might still sell better than Dragon Delves. The longevity of 5e cannot be underestimated.

Now, I am mostly enjoying 5e24, but anything I wrote here is just based on assumptions. 5e24 might never get the momentum 5e had.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I am not so sure. People who play 5e have lots of fun with it. It's already proven to be an amazing edition of D&D.

I'm presuming @Lanefan was referring to the sales of 5E14, not the number of people playing it. Sales of 5E14 material have already peaked and are now mostly closed because the only thing left of 5E14 sales are the older books currently left on shelves. All the current products being sold are 5E24 (or 5.5 as he calls it.)

 

[Reynard]

I am not so sure. People who play 5e have lots of fun with it. It's already proven to be an amazing edition of D&D.

It's harder to sell people on the game again. 5e reached FAR beyond any TTRPG's reach. People who are playing D&D 5e now might not be as up to date with everything. And if they knew of 5e24?

This style of argument rings more adn more hollow every time I hear it. The logic seems to be that people who are into D&D don't know about anything beyond the core books, but that runs counter to the narrative that people discovered D&D because of word of mouth, marketing, Critical Role and popular culture penetration. And where do these things live? The internet -- along with all those other games and absolutely certainly D&D 2024.

The old argument worked when people found D&D "by accident" in Waldenbooks or whatever, but the internet and internet culture is a deeply embedded thing in geek spaces. D&D exploded very likely just becasue of that broad awareness. But D&D does not exist in a vacuum. if you know about D&D, you also likely know about other RPGs and adjacent ephemera -- if nothing else, through memes. I mean, if no one knows anything about 3rd party products, why would they be showing up on the Beyond store?

Finally, the same people that make this argument often turn around and make the "a rising tide lifts all boats" argument for D&D being good for the industry hen it is so dominant. Well, which is it? Does the average D&D fan know D&D exists in a TTRPG geek media ecosystem, or not?

 

[Zardnaar]

I am not so sure. People who play 5e have lots of fun with it. It's already proven to be an amazing edition of D&D.

It's harder to sell people on the game again. 5e reached FAR beyond any TTRPG's reach. People who are playing D&D 5e now might not be as up to date with everything. And if they knew of 5e24? Would they go buy it? I am not so sure. We already know many people are fine with just playing what they are used to.

5e24's biggest competitor isn't Daggerheart or Shadowdark or Draw Steel, it's 5e.

Now the fact that it seems to have been doing well doesn't mean it will ever even out-sell 5e. As we know, 5e kept selling for years and years, and even now it might still sell better than Dragon Delves. The longevity of 5e cannot be underestimated.

Now, I am mostly enjoying 5e24, but anything I wrote here is just based on assumptions. 5e24 might never get the momentum 5e had.

Traditionally revisions dont fo as well.

I've been saying we wont really know until year 2 and year 3 will confirm it.

Peak 5.5 may have happened already.

5.0 wouldn't have retained everyone who bought a 5.0 phb.

We will know more in a year or do. 5.5 isnt competing with 5.0 for sales more for players.