Benign Transposition questions

[ronin]

We used benign transposition for two main things during our last campaign.

1. To help the fighter types get full attacks.
2. To get the weaker PCs out of trouble by swapping them with the fighters.

It worked very well for both. Combine this spell with the war weaver's abilities and it gets really wacky.

 

[Venator]

We have house ruled BT to a 2nd level spell that also requires the characters moved to use a move action to acclimate.

We wanted no part of this whole:

Fighter 2 delays
Fighter 1 full attacks
Wizard casts BT on Fighter 1 and Fighter 2
Fighter 2 full attacks
target dies

or

Super fast rogue type double moves / tumbles through to base the wizard type
Fighter 1 and Super fast rogue type get transposed
Fighter 1 full attacks
Wizard type has to deal with a fighter type next to him round 1 and/or 2 of combat.

Its just has to much offensive potential for a 1st level spell. I much prefer the spell used defensively.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Remember that the secret sauce to these tactics is that one of your most offensively capable characters, the arcane spellcaster, had to burn his action in the middle of a combat to shuffle people around.

Transmuting "2 Standard Actions" into "1 Full Iterative" is not inherently abusive.

As I said, IMO this is a strong 2nd level spell given on the funky possibilities. It is far more powerful than the tactical gem of 1st level spells in the PHB, Grease.

 

[frankthedm]

Remember that the secret sauce to these tactics is that one of your most offensively capable characters, the arcane spellcaster, had to burn his action in the middle of a combat to shuffle people around.

I'd say the barbarian's full attack is often the eqvivalent of the Caster's second highest spell level. At lower levels BT and snakes swiftness and other transfer action effects are only ~ok~. At higher level, letting the tanks swap places is damn usefull for a spell slot you might not otherwise use before the next time to rest. A caster who does not have the luxury of spelldumping has to make every spell count just as much if not more than each action. These spells give too much milage for their spell levels.

 

[Venator]

If nothing else it allows the wizard to conserve high level spells and turn one of his lowest level spells into considerable damage at mid-high levels.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

At 12th level, that Barbarian full attack will do ~100 damage, yes?

The opportunity cost is the Barbarian charging in for ~40 (he can Power Attack more if making only one attack, so the average would be higher), and the Wizard cost cast Scorching Ray for ~40 damage.

I can see why one might argue this is too much, but that certainly is not an outrageous premium for good team work.

 

[frankthedm]

I can see why one might argue this is too much, but that certainly is not an outrageous premium for good team work.

Oh, I'd say outrageous at a first level spell.

At second level, scorching ray, fails against the oh so common fire resit. Plus the spell is very flexible. It does not just get someone to the front line, it can bail the caster out of being surounded like dimension door, but ALSO dropping off someone with greatcleave or whirlwind attack who would have given thier left testicle or ovary to have gotton surrounded.

 

[blargney the second]

BT gets more interesting if one of your fighter types only ever uses a standard action to attack...

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Oh, I'd say outrageous at a first level spell.

I would agree with you there. Makes lesser minions armed with cheap little wands much too useful.

Seems rather weak for a 3rd level spell IMO, but it would not be an unreasonable place to put it.

(As for Fire Resistance, who cares? It is very likely to be a Sonic Ray or Acidic Ray.)

 

[backbeat]

The way to decide on this spell is to compare the options:
Full round from Barbarian + BT from Wizard + waisted move by another character
vs.
Standard from Barbarian + magic missle from wizard + available move action by other char.

In damage output (say level 11) the difference is two raging swings at -5 and -10 vs. 5d4 force damage. Magic missle averages out at 12.5 points of damage, assume the barbarian gets one hit in, he'd need a only 13 points of damage to make it a beneficial exchange. I think most Barbarians can do this even when armed with an anchovy, so BT is probably a bit overpowered at level 1.

With this in mind, I'd probably house rule a single 2nd level "Transposition" spell like Baleful Transposition with the option to fail a save

If you want to make the spell 3rd level, the alternative become a wizard casting fireball. I don't know many barbarians that can deal 35 damage as an average blow.