D&D 5E Berserker - How does it really compare to Totem Warrior?

[Greg Benage]

The bear totem has been completely blown out of proportion as has the berserker exhaustion.

This. I did some math, and the bear's expanded resistance is worse than the Tough feat, worse than Second Wind, in a typical game with the recommended number of encounters and rests. It's still quite a good third-level ability, but it's one of those that reads better than it plays. Frenzy is the opposite. I think the third-level wolf totem ability is strongest choice with the right party makeup, but it doesn't get the same hype. Berserker is better at 6th and 10th, at least when the focus is on the barbarian's combat role, and on equal footing at 14th.

In my house rules, I dropped exhaustion and imposed the cost of an extra Rage on Frenzy, but that was mostly to address perception and to create incentives to go deeper into the barbarian class for more Rages/day. Of course, no one's played a barbarian since I did that, so I can't really evaluate it. In any case, I don't think it was strictly necessary and the subclass is fine as is. If most players prefer the extra damage-mitigation from bear totem, I don't think that's a problem. They can pick up PAM to get that bonus action attack, the berserker can pick up Tough if they want to be, er, tougher. It's all good.

 

[Ashrym]

You should try comparing the berserker to the battlerager sometime.

The spiked armor attack can be used more often than the frenzy but frenzy does more damage (by a lot with GWM). I prefer the immunities to even more hp advantage from thp that won't stack with other thp. The 14th level bonus to spiked armor damage helps but retaliation is better as an additional attack using a reaction.

I have not played a battlerager so take my first thoughts with a grain of salt.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

The only thing the berserker needs would be a small feature that he can use all day long. Or maybe just the ability to surpress exhaustion. Or maybe the ability to try and reduce exhaustion on a short rest.

 

[Ahglock]

While I think people oversell bear I think people are trying to undersell it as well. While regular rage resistance deals with your most common attacks bear also applies to the yes rarer attacks but also generally the attacks the change the tide of battle. Over the course of the campaign sure you turned more 10 hp sword strikes into 5 hps and reduced overall more cumulative normal damage than energy damage. But taking 1/2 damage and staying on your feat vs the dragons breath or 2nd dragons breath is a bigger impact on the boss fights. It's the huge burst damages that if you have a healer they have a hard time keeping up with that it cuts in half. So while it's not the most amazing thing since sliced bread I wouldn't short sell it ether.

 

[Ahglock]

The only thing the berserker needs would be a small feature that he can use all day long. Or maybe just the ability to surpress exhaustion. Or maybe the ability to try and reduce exhaustion on a short rest.

Exhaustion should just be easier to reduce whether or not the berserker exists. You can be beaten down to the edge of death and through natural healing be right as rain in the morning. Grater restoration can return you from being turned to stone but it can only cure one level of exhaustion. Spending a hit die at a rest should cure a level of exhaustion, lesser restoration should cure one level, greater restoration all levels.

 

[Lillika]

I helped a player make a Barbarian, recently and I have a completely different opinion than the OP. I have also made several Barbarians, and ran as many numbers and scenarios trying to figure out which path would be the most powerful. Many of these aspects are very party dependent as well. My general thoughts are that they are roughly equal to each other. I don't think that the lvl 3 bear totem power is all that powerful. I completely agree that using your Frenzy once or maybe even twice a day is most you want to use it. This and the fear and charm protection that the Berserker get's are very potent as the Barbarian would be a perfect target to fear or charm. The lvl 10 ability is weak, but then again the Totem Barb isn't getting anything combat related. The lvl 14 ability is the best damage ability at this lvl for both types. All in all, I am mostly a power gamer and I would have a hard time not choosing the Berserker over the Totem path if I was about damage.

 

[Ashrym]

The only thing the berserker needs would be a small feature that he can use all day long. Or maybe just the ability to surpress exhaustion. Or maybe the ability to try and reduce exhaustion on a short rest.

Have you considered using a herbalism kit with proficiency or medicine check with a healer kit charge to use a stimulant for temporarily offsetting one level of exhaustion? I allow a DC 15 check with medicine and healing kit charge to spend an action for alleviating the effects of exhaustion for 2-5 rounds, allowable once per short rest.

I allow a DC 15 INT (herbalism kit) check if the character is proficient after spending 200 gp and 8 hrs of downtime to create a sniffing stimulant effective for 2 rounds. DC 20, 2 days of 8 hrs each, and 350gp for 2-5 rounds. DC 25, a week including 5 days of 8 hrs each, 500 gp for 1 minute. DC 30, 2 weeks with 10 days committing 8 hrs each day, 1000 gp for 1 hour. Black market drugs cost double and risk addiction. Using more than one per day gives an increasing CON save or risk increased levels of exhaustion in both cases. No save once, DC 10 second time, DC 15 third time, DC 20 fourth time, DC 25 fifth time, DC 30 for any additional use.

Herbalism and medicine aren't well developed, imo, but the basic principle of trying something and the DM giving a DC holds true.

While I think people oversell bear I think people are trying to undersell it as well. While regular rage resistance deals with your most common attacks bear also applies to the yes rarer attacks but also generally the attacks the change the tide of battle. Over the course of the campaign sure you turned more 10 hp sword strikes into 5 hps and reduced overall more cumulative normal damage than energy damage. But taking 1/2 damage and staying on your feat vs the dragons breath or 2nd dragons breath is a bigger impact on the boss fights. It's the huge burst damages that if you have a healer they have a hard time keeping up with that it cuts in half. So while it's not the most amazing thing since sliced bread I wouldn't short sell it ether.

That's why it's a good ability. Dragon breath is a good example of damage resistance while fear immunity correlates to draconic fear abilities.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

The only thing the berserker needs would be a small feature that he can use all day long. Or maybe just the ability to surpress exhaustion. Or maybe the ability to try and reduce exhaustion on a short rest.

I think their ability to use their rage as immunity to the charmed and frightened conditions is potent enough to remove any need for something they don't already have.

 

[Giant2005]

I'm looking for some sort of extremely simple change I can make to the Frenzy feature which will make me happy about the balance. Something that involves one, or at most two, straightforward house rules. The kind of things that fit in a single sentence. That's just how I like to roll when I house rule.

When activating Frenzy, the Barbarian either suffers 1 level of Exhaustion, or spends an additional use of Rage.

Done.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

When activating Frenzy, the Barbarian either suffers 1 level of Exhaustion, or spends an additional use of Rage.

Done.

Intentionally making a 20th level berserker immune to the exhaustion of Frenzy, or had the number of rages per long rest going from 6 to unlimited at that level slip your mind? Not a judgement, just a curiousity.