D&D 5E Berserker is balanced with Zealot without exhaustion from Frenzy

[Stalker0]

"Hinder for a single round" is your problem here. For the right foe, being immobilized is effectively incapacitated - many foes don't have powerful ranged attacks. And 'single round' is 'until I choose to stop'. The ability just keeps going as long as you keep maintaining it.

Let's say you'r a 15th level barbarian up against an ancient red dragon, and your charisma is 10.

You still have a 25% chance to affect him. And once you affect him, if you can pull back to 125 feet with the right angle... the fight is over. You literally have as long as you want with that sucker sitting in his corner getting slammed by whatever your buddies have range with, with zero chance to break free.

Personally I think that's worth a crack instead of some comparitively small portion of his hitpoints.

One correction, the effect ends if the target is more than 60 feet away from you, so your example would not work. But even at 60 feet it does limit a dragon to just its breath weapon.

You have given me some compelling arguments, I think this ability is probably still pretty situational, but might still have some good kick to it.

 

[ad_hoc]

One correction, the effect ends if the target is more than 60 feet away from you, so your example would not work. But even at 60 feet it does limit a dragon to just its breath weapon.

You have given me some compelling arguments, I think this ability is probably still pretty situational, but might still have some good kick to it.

This scenario is also exaggerated.

I count 15%. 8+5+0=13 vs Wisdom +9. Roll of 4 or better.

The dragon also has legendary resistance in the rare case that the dragon fails their saving throw. That's what it is for. The dragon needs to fail 4 debilitating effects before having issues.

It also has its own Frightful Presence, only it has a range of 120ft and is DC 21.

In addition to its Breath Weapon they also have lair actions to contend with.

 

[Stalker0]

This scenario is also exaggerated.

I count 15%. 8+5+0=13 vs Wisdom +9. Roll of 4 or better.

The dragon also has legendary resistance in the rare case that the dragon fails their saving throw. That's what it is for. The dragon needs to fail 4 debilitating effects before having issues.

It also has its own Frightful Presence, only it has a range of 120ft and is DC 21.

In addition to its Breath Weapon they also have lair actions to contend with.

So the question is, is it common to face a group of medium monsters where the fear would be better than outright damage but the monster is vulnerable enough to the fear to make it worth it

 

[Bardbarian]

So the question is, is it common to face a group of medium monsters where the fear would be better than outright damage but the monster is vulnerable enough to the fear to make it worth it

I don't think that happens very often. I have used the ability (I have a 14 charisma) and it has been a roleplay choice every time. I have feared enemis I could probably have walked up to and killed or grappeld. Also keep in mind that a Barbarian who uses this ability will likely drop out of rage prior to level 15. The ability is a nice ribbon, I am concerend that a new player might fall into the trap of using it in bad situations. Its the type of ability that might look ok in a white room when you set the optimum scenario, however, In actual play you have limited information about your enemy and cannot determine the chance of success as given in your example. I play heavily. this weekend I am scheduled to play 4 AL events. I cannot tell you the chance I have of success with this ability in any game I will be playing. In fact I will be replaying at least one adventure with a different character and I cannot say in the event I am playin that this will work. In addition I know our Homegame Dm tends to increase monster saves from 1-3 on average because our spellcasters have incredibly powerful gear from years of play, (Staf of Magi for example) and a 25 % chance quickly dwindles with such a small alteration. Ths is very common and not outside the spirit or even the rules of the game. There is nothing wrong with having abilities that rarely if ever work. A dragon should be less afraid of a barbarian standing and wagging their finger menacingly. This ability just happens to be close enough to viable that a player who does not understand it's place might expect to use it and screw themselves.

 

[Stalker0]

Also keep in mind that a Barbarian who uses this ability will likely drop out of rage prior to level 15.

Ok so now its... is it common to face a group of medium monsters where the fear would be better than outright damage but the monster is vulnerable enough to the fear to make it worth it, AND you have already taken damage that round so you don't lose rage.

Sigh, I had a glimmer of hope for this ability but its not looking good. And even if there are edge cases I think it would be hard for anyone to say it competes with the Zealot ability at the same level

 

[ad_hoc]

Ok so now its... is it common to face a group of medium monsters where the fear would be better than outright damage but the monster is vulnerable enough to the fear to make it worth it, AND you have already taken damage that round so you don't lose rage.

Sigh, I had a glimmer of hope for this ability but its not looking good. And even if there are edge cases I think it would be hard for anyone to say it competes with the Zealot ability at the same level

To be fair, if the character is in a frenzy they can use their action on fear and bonus action on an attack.

 

[BookBarbarian]

To be fair, if the character is in a frenzy they can use their action on fear and bonus action on an attack.

And if they did take damage and are 14+ they'll get another attack as a Reaction.

As much as I dislike the Exhaustion aspect of it, Berserker abilities work well enough together, and it has a really solid theme.

I'd still rather play a Zealot though.

 

[Bardbarian]

Both the Zealot and the Berzerker are interesting classes that just do different things. There are parts I would change about both classes, and I would alter the basic chassis of the Barebarian in a few minor ways as well. Overall I enjoy playing the Berzerker and I am looking forward to playing the Zealot as well once I develop a compelling character idea.

 

[Xeviat]

Taking fatigue away from the Berserker would hurt the battle rager's bonus action attack.

 

[Ancalagon]

does this show that the berserker is underpowered, or the zealot overpowered?